Meaty attack setplay and range specific advantage.

In an effort to help people improve, I'm going to be posting more info about VF that I'm not sure people fully understand or know about. It will also expose some of my Jean secrets but I'm not so worried about that : D.



Active Frames and You!

In VF when a character techrolls after a knockdown, if you time an attack so the active frames of the move hit the opponent as soon as invincibility ends, the attack becomes unevadeable. They can still guard, but any attempt to evade will cause you to get hit by the move even if it's linear. By using this technique you can also reduce disadvantage by hitting on later active frames. This is a technique commonly used in 2D fighters and are known as "meaty" attacks.

Here's a video example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev4B6vW9g...mp;feature=plcp

At 1:23 Jacky lands CH then immediately does and gets a heel sword that is fuzzyable on block. It hits during the late active frames and cannot be evaded by the other Jacky player. This creates a situation where the Jacky player must hold G or take damage. If anything is done except holding G you will take damage in these situations.

Another example is doing Jean's or . If you immediately fully charge , it hits meaty and creates an unevadable +6 situation that leads to damage on hit.

In VF, I believe you can delay techroll by 4(?) frames and this allows you to escape these situations. Unless, a character has a move with enough active frames to stretch over this 4 frame delay, such as Jacky's . The only way to truly escape these setups, are to just not techroll. But, that lets the opponent damage you if they predict you will stay grounded.

This concept extends to range specific advantage as certain moves hit on later active frames depending on how they hit the opposing character in regards to spacing. If the opponent guards Sarah's at the tip of her leg, it's +7 for Sarah instead of +4. Other moves like this in VF are Lion's and Pai's . Shun's mule kick can also -10 if spaced properly, instead of -13.

This is a lot more than I usually type here, but I hope this helps people level up and removes some of the confusion about things I do with Jean : D. Go to the lab and see what you can come up with!

 

This is legit tech right here, thanks for sharing!

Share moar! You wronged me earlier, but I'm a nice one, still have my troll tech up for grabs.

 

Thanks for sharing. Never knew about the Tech roll setups. If I discover anything I'll make sure to share as well

 

Oh GT has much more to share. I'm glad to see you posting your information man. Good example you're setting here.

 

I know a couple of meaty setups that are really easy.

Aoi
* Sweep counter hit, buffer +. It they evade you have +12 or +13 (normally its +9 I think), combos afterwards for 70 damage.


Goh
* > OM > K (only works if they do an exact tech roll). Gives +11 if they try to evade or duck.
If they chose to quick rise, this will cause your attack to hit from the side.
Notice that after OM you have to delay a throw or a low throw for them to connect.

 

I wonder how can you measure the moves to hit on later frame? Can you apply anytime you want or is it only possible in specific setups(cases) such as Jacky's 1K+G > 4K+G and Jean's 2KK > 6K+G(charge)?

 

This is good stuff man. Thanks for sharing this. If I find anything I'll post it up.

 

You really can't. It's setplay ala SF4 where people discover specific setups for safejump timing. It's the same concept.

If you do happen to find one of these setups you can calculate how many frames are during the knockdown. The Knockdown on the Jean setup is 44 frames.

EDIT : The only real way to discover these setups are lab time : D.

 

I see, these are the same concepts.

 

In neutral position its about doing moves at range, so only the tip of your leg/fist/etc will connect.

In this thread its about timing the move so that opponent has recovered in middle of the moves active frame window, making the move unevadable. Its good stuff really. Thanks for posting this GT.

 

Does that unevadeable state work on evade CD cancel shenanigans? I'm assuming it does. Thanks for confirming this was the case, I've been wondering about it.

 

I dunno if I understand what you mean by measuring but I've been using crouch dashes to "measure" the time before I need to use my attack to catch Tech's this way. Same thing with crushing rising attacks.

 

Do you mean they can evade CD out of these setups? If that's what you mean then no they can't. : )

@Tricky : After combos ending with with Eileen like , , , , if you do immediately after it will hit meaty and also option select with down attack. If they tech, follow up with mixups. If not, Eileen has good wakeup options.

 

my god man, I sometimes ended up doing the 3P just out of habit and noticed it would hit sometimes, never thought about the reason why before. Very very nice and I'll be playing with that in dojo tonight.

 

Akira can do this after his 66 P+G grab. Immediately input an 66P after the throw and if they tech and try to evade you hit them and your plus 6 instead of plus 4. However, if the opponent exact ukemi's they are able to evade still

 

That's a very interesting post. It inspired me to go into the lab and I've found that when doing these setups you've gotta take into account the character's weight.
Because depending on weight character will fall faster to the ground, hence to tech roll at different timings.

As an example the 2KK, 6K+G Jean setup will whiff against Eileen if she techs late cause she falls more slowly to the ground. On the other hand, jeffry, if he techs very early will be able to dodge.