Meaty: Help Wanted

I personally look at meaties like this:

Meaties are attacks that are used in okizeme/on knocked down opponents to punish their (for lack of a better term) 'getting up' animation or wake-up kick attack.

Technically, any attack on your movelist can be used as a meaty attack, but the most effective/commonly used meaty attacks 1) hit Mid-level, 2) does 21 damage or more, 3) launches your opponent or causes knockdown, and 4) is -9 or less on block.

Long story short, you put your opponent on his/her back via knockdown and keep knocking them back down (often alongside with a high damage combo). If you watch/play/hear about SF4, meaties are analgous to creating 'vortex' situations, like Akuma or (iirc) Ibuki in SF4.

The key to meaties is yomi and timing. A common example of using meaties is after a sweep. When u successfully sweep your opponent, when your character returns to their normal standing stance, your opponent is still on the floor, trying to get off the ground. Of course, this leads to a situation where you have alot of frame advantage over your grounded opponent -- more than enough time to use an attack.

Now normally, its best its best to respect your knocked down opponent and block or backdash, WHILE WATCHING HOW YOUR OPPONENT GETS BACK UP. Blocking is a good option because you can block a wakeup kick on reaction. Backdashing is good, because it is the safest of all okizeme options, especially important for the end of a round when your life is low. The IMPORTANT THING to do while using these options is watch how your opponent gets up; you notice any predictable patterns (opponent always techs off the ground, they always use wakeup kicks) then now you know its a great time to use meaties!

The weakness of meaties is the fact that your opponent can vary the timing of when they can return to their feet with various options (laying on the ground without rolling, using different rolls, when they use or not use wakeup kick, teching). Mistiming a meaty, or simply throwing one out without thinking can cause you to whiff (which sometimes you can be punished for). Noticing and taking advantage of any pattern in how your opponent gets off the ground eliminates this problem.

 

Answering some OP questions:

*Can a meaty be ducked on wake-up? Can a meaty be evaded on wake-up? Blocked?
--IIRC, when your opponent gets up off the ground, there are 3 frames where they can do NOTHING except high/low guard or sabaki/counter. This occurs specifically off a tech, and (I think) off a wakeup kick-less roll. When they get up/tech in place, they are in this state while standing (good for throws and lows) and if they roll/tech to the side, they are in this state crouching. If they try to evade at either of these points, they will get hit by CH.
NOTE: no matter if they roll or stand in place, they can ALWAYS block high and low from the first frame. The previous sentences cover mainly when they try to do something EXCEPT block.

*Sabaki'd or reversed?
If your opponent has a sabaki/counter that works from the first frame, tben they can use this as well as block, as soon as wakeup invincibility frames wear off.

*How does my opponent combat a good meaty like wolf's big chop or goh's charged 4p+k?
--Sabaki, counter, or dont tech.

*Do meaties beat low/high rising attacks (the recovery kicks)?
--If the meaty is 21 damage or greater.



EDIT: @kingo proved me wrong and showed that Sabaki's/Inashi's DON'T work on meaties.

 

If your opponent can DM/evade your meaty, then its not a real meaty.

 

I think you missed my point. If the attack used on wakeup is timed correctly, they can't evade. At all. Its totally impossible. And if they try, they will get CH'd.

If they are able to, then its not a meaty setup. The particular setup you mention is a really good setup, dont get me wrong, but dont get confused and call it a meaty. Its more like a trap exploiting a failed meaty setup.

 

Dat yomi within the yomi tech

 

i believe they can sabaki and counter on the first frame after invincibility, just like they can block on the first frame. I'll test it tonight