Minor Balance Related Pet Peeves

Re: TFT

I agree. It should be made a 270. Wasn't it like that in FT?

Or maybe when it is escaped, Kage is at minus 30.

 

Very true. I think I may have to take that move off my peeve list.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Her only full circular mids (aside from dodge attack, which everyone has) are her charge kicks, which are pretty interruptable.
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Hmmm. Am I the only one who finds it incredibly difficult to evade against her?

I still think she is far too versatile. I'm not sure what AM2's concept for her is. With lots of the characters, I think there are clear gameplay concepts that are being implemented (Wolf and Akira being the clearest examples I think). With her, I'm just not sure what they were trying to accomplish. She has absolutely everything - user friendly, high damage combos, high damage throws, circulars, atemis, sabakis, canned combos, free combos, bounces, flops, great lows, useful stances, pretty much everything. You don't see that kind of versatility in any other character. I just have difficulty understanding what it is that AM2 is trying to do with her.

Like I said, she's my pet peeve character. I don't think she's overpowered to the point where she needs to be heavily nerfed or anything. I just have trouble understanding how to play against her because she can be played incredibly well in so many different ways.

 

Re: TFT

I don't think she is whopping ass or anything here in Tokyo. She's just my pet peeve character because I don't think she has any real weaknesses.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My only gripe is TFT. It should be a 270 for its ring out potential. You can be not very good at the game and still beat people better than you by throwing out a shitload of tft's.

I wonder if AM2 leaves it in the game because Japanese players think it is not kosher to spam it a lot so it doesn't get used as much a ring out monster. Or maybe Japanese players are just used to escaping it out of habit so it is less of an issue. Or maybe it is some combination of the two. Nerf that shit, AM2! </div></div>

It gets spammed like crazy here in Tokyo but it's also broken a lot. I've also never seen more than 1 ring out in any match against Kage. I see more ring outs with Wolf / Jeff / Blaze / Vanessa, because trying to break a 1p+g against them doesn't immediately come to mind (although it probably should). Breaking 4p+g against Kage should be one of the first things that you think about if Kage's got his back to the edge.

 

Re: TFT

Pai's concept is just what you described...versatility. Pai and Jacky are meant to be the all-around characters in VF5 that new players could adopt to learn the game.

 

I think we just aren't connecting here.

If you think Jeff's -13 on his juggles is the same as Pai having a better throwing game than every character other than Wolf/Jeff/Goh, then I think you simply need to play the game more.

 

Re: TFT

I think user friendly and versatile are different concepts though.

For example, I don't think Jacky is versatile. He's a striker with a strong middle distance game and lots of full / half circulars. He has a limited throwing game and his high damage combos are strongly influenced by stance and weight. He also has crappy lows.

 

Re: TFT

I disagree...he has everything you need in a character. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is NOT crappy.

To amend my original statement though,

From "Pai and Jacky are meant to be the all-around characters in VF5 that new players could adopt to learn the game"

To "Pai and Jacky are meant to be all-around characters in VF5 that people can use effectively without much practice."

I think the latter is what I meant to say. As you pointed out, user friendliness, though I think that goes hand-in-hand with versatility.

 

Re: TFT

Well, I would argue that every character is sufficient (e.g. they all have "everything you need in a character").

My point is that Pai excels in every category. You can't say that about any other character except maybe a high DP Shun and Vanessa (who is very difficult to use).

1p on Jacky is about as good as Akira's 3p+k, and I do not hesitate to say that Akira has crappy lows too. Please compare Jacky's meager 1p to Pai's 66p+k, 1k+g, 2k+g, 1kk and her sweep from bokutai. I think the difference is clear.

 

Re: TFT

You don't get me. Arguing that throw is too poverfull because you cannot TR it for reducing damage is the same as arguing you cannot throw Jeffry at -13 because you cannot imput your throws quick enough. Absurd? Yes. But still good exapmle.

About Pai. Yes, She is strong. 10-frame P, lot of tools... And she is light weight too. You can beat her much more badly that other, not "so-much ecelent in all wayes" characters.

And, BTW. If you don't like Pai, what you think about Lion and Eileen? Awesome sabakis, tons of KND low/mids, strong juggles, safe starters, versatility like hell. Only think they are not as good as Pai are reversals and Low throws, but FE in sabakis they both excels much more, in low/mid and circular game too. And what players like Chibita can do with Lion is madness. Is he too strong too?

 

Re: TFT

What ice-9 said...

Newbs got to have characters that are easy enough to learn to be able to get a good feel of the game. Downside is, unless you're really interested in learning such characters (Pai in particular), those moves will soon be easy to predict.

 

Re: TFT

My Pet peave right now is Eileen's stupid version of Lei's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Try dogding it. Hell I'm sure if you tried using Wolf or El Blaze's run moves she'll just fly over to you to hit you.

 

Re: TFT

No it's not. A slam and a non-slam are totally different. There is no player on earth that can TR out of a slam every time whereas any player can press p+g or pk after blocking. What you're effectively saying is that Pai's throw is only 50 points of damage, which is simply not true.

Look there were two options that AM2 could have done:

1) They could have made Pai's 2_6p+g 50 points of damage, no slam, regular down; or
2) They could have made Pai's 2_6p+g 60 points of damage, with slam and 10 point damage deduction if you do a perfect TR.

Option 2 is what they chose. It is different from option 1. Your position necessarily states that they are the same. They aren't.

If you want to continue with this point, then would you argue that Jeff's 4p+g is a 0 damage throw? Wolf's GS and PGS are 60pt and 80pt throws? Of course not. Stop being silly. Pai has a better throwing game than almost every other character. That is nonsense. For her speed and striking power, she shouldn't have any 60 point throws, much less two. Not to mention her low throws.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About Pai. Yes, She is strong. 10-frame P, lot of tools... And she is light weight too. You can beat her much more badly that other, not "so-much ecelent in all wayes" characters.</div></div>

Being light weight doesn't mean anything. She is in the same class as Sarah, Aoi, Eileen, etc., and they don't benefit from the same advantages she has.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And, BTW. If you don't like Pai, what you think about Lion and Eileen? Awesome sabakis, tons of KND low/mids, strong juggles, safe starters, versatility like hell. Only think they are not as good as Pai are reversals and Low throws, but FE in sabakis they both excels much more, in low/mid and circular game too. And what players like Chibita can do with Lion is madness. Is he too strong too? </div></div>

I really think you need to play the game more.

Eileen has the worst throws in the entire game. She is nowhere near as versatile as Pai and she definitely does not excel in every category.

Lion is closer, but he only has one 60 point throw, just like every other strong striker character who has one powerful throw direction (Lau, Akira, Kage, Lei, etc.).

 

Re: TFT

I actually find Pai to be the most difficult character to predict because, like I said, she is so damn versatile.

 

Re: TFT

Pai's 66p+k is linear and comes out in 29 frames. 1K+G is -20 on guard and -6 on hit. 2K+G is -18 on guard. 1K is -14 on guard and although the followup K is guaranteed, Pai cannot delay the 2nd K and hence cannot hit check if the 1st 1K is on MC. Bokutai's sweep comes out in 21 frame and is -17 on guard.

Compare all these to Jacky's 1P which is -10 on guard, half circular, the follow up K is guaranteed on mC(recovery counter hit) and MC plus you have LOTS of time to check if 1P mC or MC. Give Jacky All of Pai's lows, I would still stick to 1P.

I think you need to play more Jacky. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Re: TFT

What does "mC or MC" stands for?

 

Re: TFT

mC means you hit your opponent while they are still recovering from a move. They cannot guard while in recover state. MC means you interrupt you opponent's move with one of yours giving you 50% more damage than normal.

 

Re: TFT

Yes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wolf's GS and PGS are 60pt and 80pt throws? </div></div>Yes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lion is closer, but he only has one 60 point throw, just like every other strong striker character who has one powerful throw direction (Lau, Akira, Kage, Lei, etc.). </div></div>No, he has two directions with 60+ damage, HCB and 2_6.

I'd make a comment about "you need to play the game more", but I don't feel retarded enough.

 

Nothing crumbles in Ura KoKo shiki be it mC or MC.....

Ground throws never grant you ground punch. You need to struggle and roll to the appropriate side......

 

lol yeah

how do you avoid that consistenly anyway?

 

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