Move priority

>I understand that this is what you're saying NOW, but you're the only person to mention the 1 to 100 scale thing
This is what've been saying for quite sometime, and you've not said your Priority is not single value. Have you? And yes I'm the only person mentioning it, and I'm the only person replying to you. but there are people here who think priority (don't jump the gun, the word has a different meaning for some people) is speed related.

>Bullshit, you weren't saying that anyone in Capcom was wrong?

Right, that's what I'm saying. I was saying your points are meanless until you can back it up (with facts and examples), YES that's what I was saying. YES that's what I was saying. YES that's what I was saying.YES that's what I was saying. You can believe whatever you like from that... no more repeating. Just like you insisting hitbox defines invinciblity which you have yet to explain, nor do I care for your explanation.

>easy reward, braindead character in VF4. He wasn't too frigging clever in VF3 either, come to think of it. I could take a newbie with a background in tekken and teach him effective akira in five minutes, and he wouldn't need to waste any of that time learning those oh-so-special SPoDs or DLCs or AS3's or knees.

LOL are you dreaming? don't kid yourself, why don't take some time and teach yourself first. Yea your low punch, d/f+pg, srm Akira was so powerful. Ever heard of dodge throw escape? If out of your own igorance you refuse to use it, then that your fucking problem. Did you even get a 2 win streak with him? or ANY character that night? At least you got another chance to express your feelings towards Akira truthfully, you feel better now? Honestly creed, how many total hours of vf4 have you had? 5 hours? 6? It's funny while people bash ice-9 for his opinions based on his limited playtime, People like you think they got the game figured out just by talking about it on the net. And where in the world did Akira dominate? Japan? Koean? Or only in your head cuz you've played 1 akira in your life and can't understand why you can't win. Blame the system, Akira's full of braindead combos, Jacky is unbalanced, bla bla bla. Cry me a river. Here is my advice, close those irc boxes and go play the game.

>OH! gosh! so "there is no official term" = "there is no official term that I happen to know that ought to be used on this board during this discussion?"
Creed, can you provide me with 1 VF faq/document or anywhere on VFA that has the words "hit box" / "invulnerable box" /" move priority"? Please post it if you do. No seriously please do.
You've made it clear you have a SF background, and that's where you got the terms. I hate to remind you again and again, we aren't part of capcom community like you, if you want to use those terms, please define them BEFORE you go off.

>1. It's pretty clear by now, fifteen posts later or so, that both of us finally "get" the 2D fighting >game system. We don't need to try to shove anything else into anyone's head.

No man, you've only made clear what does the word "priority" means to you and the capcom community. And by that definition, "prority" is next none existence in vf (which you've said I credit), so why even bring it up? Does that mean we cannot use the word "priority" to define an area of vf? The word priority to me (without your SF education) are the factors that make jacky's elbow beats jeff's punch in vf3, things like that that cause one move to "beat" other.

>3. You feel like you need to defend akira and yourself, that's fine, but I'm not going to be sucked into that.

More than once have I asked you to drop this, instead you are making a book out of this.. are you sucking me or Am I sucking you?

Let's call it quits here, I'm sure I've pissed off you and some of your buddies. I like you, am glad I pissed you off.

 

LOL are you dreaming? don't kid yourself, why don't take some time and teach yourself first.

This is the best argument you can come up with that akira is an expert character? Once again you're trying to trick me into going completely off-topic. You insult me, you complain that "creed's a whiner, creed's only played the game a little, creed doesn't even play akira, creed creed creed" ... all that effort to NOT make any good points about how akira is supposed to be an expert character. Well here are my points. I'm going to ignore your personal attacks and focus on the argument.

1. An akira player can win without spod, DLC, or knee. So that means they must rely on his other attacks. Are any of them hard to do? Well, f,f,f+P isn't. D, f+P+K isn't. d/f+P+G isn't. f,f+K,K isn't. Are any of akira's 'staple' combos hard to do? f,f,f+P, d+P, b,f+P - that's your favorite. Did it take years of training? How about f,f,f+P(MC), f,f+K? Is that something only the tetsujin can do? How about D, f+P+K for a free combo of your choice, even without a major counter? Is that tough?

2. You might argue that the moves are easy, it's knowing when to do them and balancing risk and reward that's tough. Well akira's risk for a shrm is a punch counter from some characters and a throw from the rest. His reward is 50 points of damage and another 30 or so from a combo. Akira's risk for the super dashing elbow? Well it's uncounterable and cannot be avoided by crouching, and an interrupt gives you about 80 points of damage after the combo.

DTE takes away what few counter options your opponent has. Are you going to say R-DTE is an advanced, tough-to-learn akira technique? You can't, it's a technique that ANYONE with a reversal should learn, not just Akira players. Is it hard to recognize when to combo with akira? Do you need a good sense of what kind of float you get? Not really, the shrm almost always floats enough for an easy combo, even if you got no major counter. Anyone can also try lots of f,f,f+P and recognize that if it causes a crumple, f,f+K,K is easy, free damage. Naturally d/f+P+G, d/f+P doesn't need any explanation. These are all moves that you used almost exclusively when we played, so if you say "this isn't all that a good akira player uses" then you're being a hypocrite. Compare these moves to shun where you need to be a little more tricky and careful.

3. Akira hasn't won any tournaments that I know of, this is true, but then again the delray tournament was won by a kage. That doesn't mean kage's the best in the game. And an Akira did narrowly lose to a jacky to win the daioh tournament. I won't claim that akira ruins the game and that he's the only character worth picking, I never said that, I just said that he's easy to learn and full of powerful BS.

4. If you still want to say "Creed creed creed" instead of akira, akira, akira... remember this: I wasn't the first to make the claim that akira was very strong, Rich was. Are you going to insult rich now and say he doesn't have the experience or skill to make that sort of claim? Think about your response, at least TRY to argue why akira is an expert character who is difficult to learn. If your arguments are good then I will admit I'm wrong for everyone to see, but you have to stick to the argument, not attack me or just say "you're on crack".

You've made it clear you have a SF background, and that's where you got the terms. I hate to remind you again and again, we aren't part of capcom community like you, if you want to use those terms, please define them BEFORE you go off.


I was only talking to you, and I made the error of assuming you knew these terms. I'll be more careful about my terms if you agree to be more careful about saying stuff like "there are no official terms" when you mean "nobody on here recognizes your terms".

No man, you've only made clear what does the word "priority" means to you and the capcom community. And by that definition, "prority" is next none existence in vf (which you've said I credit), so why even bring it up? Does that mean we cannot use the word "priority" to define an area of vf? The word priority to me (without your SF education) are the factors that make jacky's elbow beats jeff's punch in vf3, things like that that cause one move to "beat" other.

I will give you this, priority in 2D games has very, very little to do with why one move beats another in 3D games (or at least the VF series. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it at all. It would have been nice to avoid this flame war entirely.

Let's call it quits here, I'm sure I've pissed off you and some of your buddies. I like you, am glad I pissed you off.

I agree, we should call it quits. Although I don't think you'll be able to resist replying to all the stuff I said about akira being brainless.
-----------------------
I am honestly sorry I got so worked up over this and your comment at the beginning of the thread, it doesn't help my arguments any to swear at you or call you names, and I apologize for that.

 

DTE takes away what few counter options your opponent has. Are you going to say R-DTE is an advanced, tough-to-learn akira technique?

R-DTE and more importantly TE-G and E-->TE-G (with any character) are not difficult to perform, but getting them out with consistency during appropriate moments in the game is quite difficult. I've stated this numerous times and from playing vf3tb until the very end, I've yet to see anyone employ the aforementioned defensive techniques with any REAL consistency. I only played vf4 a few times and haven't really tried these techniques appropriately during intense matches, but from what people have said, they are easier to perform now. Still, from what i've been seeing (in NY at least), the focus is on offense and defense is pretty much an after-thought.

True Creed...you don't need SPOD or DLC to win all of the time - but mostly you do. Trust me, it is a major portion of any above average Akira player's arsenal. It is wise to do DLC in many guaranteed situations such as after Akira's d,f+P+K hits as major counter. You can't afford to sacrifice guaranteed damage in such situations. SPOD is insanely useful in "defensive situations" such as: After opponent staggers Akira and then approaches to grab, instead of having to try to fuss with MTE (if Akira is pretty sure that opponent will grab), Akira should just recover like a mutha fukka and then SPOD the opponent. This works wonders and is a great demoralizing tool to wipe out some of opponent's confidence (appropriately termed as "mental fukking" in NYC). As such, SPOD should not just be used in brain-dead guaranteed situations (such as after whiffed kick flip). Against not-so-good players, sure, you can win without SPOD, DLC or option select most of the time, but against seasoned players, you wont have much luck - if your goal is to win consistently and rack up a good number of wins.

Against good competition, Akira is forced to use his more advanced moves/techniques, thus making him a bit harder to use. His advanced moves also require more dexterity than most other character's moves anyway, so consistency in execution is harder to achieve IMO.

 

**SPOD is insanely useful in "defensive situations"... (if Akira is pretty sure that opponent will grab)**

Screw the SPoD, if you're pretty sure the opponent is going to throw, then do QCB+P. It does more damage (100 on any normal hit, every time), no worries about fucking up the motions, is not reversable, and best of all it's totally uncounterable (way to go, Sega!). Behold...the power of CHEESE.

**Against good competition, Akira is forced to use his more advanced moves/techniques**

This is vague...and can apply to any character.

 

Rich already picked on you about the SPoD. So just about the DLC:
punch, DJK does the same amount of damage if virtua project is correct, on the other hand I don't think VP's damages are correct all around. Shrm, DLC does 99 points of damage with no counter according to the movelist, but in reality two MC shrm, DLC comboes doesn't kill you. So it may be float modifiers or whatever. My point is that DLC damage sucks now, a big chuck of the damage is from the shrm itself in that sort of combo. On paper, shrm, P, DJK does just as much damage with no chance of fucking it up, and d+P, dbpm seems to do close to what a DLC does. Also, I've seen shrm, P, shrm, dbpm and that definitely is more damage. DLC is a nice brainless followup for good damage, that's true, but hardly a necessity, unless you want to argue that doing a combo that's 9 points less damage will make the difference between winning and losing.

Bleah, I'm getting off track. The argument is this: Is akira an expert's character, and is he tough to learn? I say he isn't. You can learn DLC in a day of practice even if you want to say that the DLC's an absolute must. SPoD's a little harder (although some find the DLC harder?) but like rich said, QCB+P is a great alternative.

His advanced moves also require more dexterity than most other character's moves anyway, so consistency in execution is harder to achieve IMO.

Yeah, but for the beginner that just means that if you fear fucking up the DLC, stick with easier moves instead. Anyway, that's sort of true for everyone.
Again, I'm not worried about "how easy is it to learn akira playing hardcore experts all day?" ... it's gonna be tough playing experts no matter what. I just mean how hard is it to reach the level of "officially competent".

 

To add my quick two cents to the discussion....I just want to add that I've never seen any effective "beginner" Akiras in my life. However, I've seen plenty of Jacky, Lion, Pai, Lau, and even Sarah and Vanessa beginners that are effective.

I'm not discrediting anyone's arguments (yet), but I think empirical (if not just anecdotal) experience must be considered.

 

well, we're discussing VF4 akira, and I have fewer hours under my belt than you in that game. Shang may have more than you, I don't know. But I can say I've seen effective VF2 beginner akiras. I never played any beginners in VF3.
My only real points then are:

1. We can both say we've seen effective beginners in general.

2. It's not too hard to imagine an effective beginner akira using the moves I mentioned -
SDE (fast, safe, hits mid, long range, free combo on MC)
Shrm (less fast and safe and long range, but hits mid and gives a free combo anytime)
d/f+P+G (free ground punch makes it an easy 65 pt throw, three damn near kill you)

and the inevitable high/low punch plus maybe a standard elbow thrown in from time to time.

For the really clever beginner:
d/f+P+K (uncounterable in VF4? hits low, free combo on MC)
QCB+P (slow, but uncounterable, easy 100 point damage combo)
b,f+P+K (teach a scrub to love this as a way of stuffing QR's, and they can figure out the other uses on their own)

See anything here that a beginner might not understand well enough to use effectively? Or anything whose command is too difficult for a VF beginner?

 

'kay my two cents are coming in...

Akira can be argued to be the best in the game for 1 reason...dodge bodycheck.
The move takes half-bar going onto around 150%!! in some situations. Some Akira has started abusing this in the UK, heck some rely on it for wins totally.

Sick thing is, that is only ONE of Akira's many BS damage situations now.

HCB+P - Bodycheck = 100+%

Reversal throw escape is SO powerful now.

No counter after DE, SDE, df+P+K, HCB+P all infuriates.

SDE or SHrm - d+P DbPm or f,f+KK is easy damage now.

SDE - delayed bodycheck is easy damage

SPOD after f+P+Gor d+P+G or whiffed rising kicks gives you (non-escapable) guaranteed damage.

SPOD - dash in df+P is v.hard to struggle out of now.

SPOD wall hit - AS3 - df+P nearly wipes your bar.

df+P+K+G, f+P is a superb sabaki, nailing ANY jab or low jab attempt.

Shrm - Shrm - AS3 - df+P gives insane damage upto midweights.
Shrm - P - Shrm - DbPm makes LW's wonder why there life bar has suddenly turned from green to red.

Oh, and we're complaining about DLC...who cares, it turns him into a ring out monster too.

Just seems like a big in-balance in the game, 'kay Akira is not as powerful as in VF2, but he's still a teif!

Not that I'm upset with the Kage downgrades or anything...ho hum...

 

now that the flame has settled down...
ukguy, No one here is arguing akira is not powerful. I think as Ice-9 gets more exposure with akira, he'll realize Akira in the right hands is next to unstoppable. However the discussion is on whether Akira is easy to learn / easy to play for a beginner. btw nice list. I'm going to try some of the stuff.
Some thoughts:
1, Advanced technique doesn't just mean how hard is it to input. Throw escape, not even RTE, is definitely "an advanced, tough-to-learn technique". The reason is very simple. In order to TE you have to have experience with your opponent's throw table. And to mix in reversals, you have to have experience with your opponent's attack table. While many character don't need to reverse to win, Akira does. SHRM wouldn't be nearly as powerful if Akira can't RTE or GTE, DTE after. While this might be taken for granted for people here, it's a long and time consuming process that involves a lot of money. Also, in order to reverse, throw escape or even defend properly you need to know both character's moves tables. Of course this goes beyond just Akira; it's the reason why vf is so damn hard to learn. Honestly, when was the last time you consider someone who's RTEing a beginner?
2, Akira doesn't have any safe chain attacks which makes him hard for beginners. Unlike Jacky who can do hhmhl, mhl, ll stuff The most Akira can do is PP, Whopee! And I'm sure Bungle would waste no time xpding Akira to death after. This has to do with something Hiro said before I think.
3, Akira's moves need multiple inputs or prerequistions. While Kage can do d/b+kg to Flip, Akira needs to f x3 +p to do SDE. Jacky can start a Knee pp knee with just f+k, Akira needs to crouch first then f+pk to do shrm ( don't even start to tell me CD is not an advanced), with the power of Midlevel attacks, this is fatal to beginners.
End to End, you need to know a lot about the game to begin playing Akira effective, and much less so for characters like Jacky, Pai, Lau.This is why I've never seen an effective Akira beginner. Again, I think we lack of a common definition here, are you saying a beginner is someone who has understandings of the game already and just never played Akira? For many, that person isn't a beginner to begin with... If tomorrow bungle plays Akira fulltime, is he a beginner?
And Creed you keep on saying you someone can learn the DLC in a day, and SPoD is a bit longer. This is just not true..there is no way a person can learn DLC in a day and pull it of in a match consistently at the right time. No way! impossible! If you are talking about doing it consistently on a dummy without pressure...ok... well that's like morons who say they've conquered VF cuz they finished the game. And don't tell me you've never heard of this. The only person I've ever seen who can consistently SpoD/DLC is Adam. And I bet he can't even do it consistently on a stick he's not used to. No one is saying DLC/SPoD make or break an Akira, it's useful as hell. But that doesn't mean a dummy who can SPoD/DLC 100% is the best Akira alive.
On qcb+p, bdychk, this move is not a replacement for SPoD, the priority (god forbidden) sucks so bad. It comes out like a charge move, slow as a mule. 1/2 bar is still too much though... Speaking of, I was in chicago last week, and the SPoD on the test machine does at least 100 point of damage, you take big damage as you hit the ground. It did like 70% of the bar on the cpu without pounce (180point total I believe). So I guess sega intentionally gave Akira the highest damaging potential from the beginning.

 

Amma pick on some stuff, although I agree with most of the other stuff you mention.

Akira can be argued to be the best in the game for 1 reason...dodge bodycheck.
The move takes half-bar going onto around 150%!!

You probably meant 150 points =)
And no, it never does that much, you gotta send me a screenshot if you want me to buy that. If Akira can kill you with 2 bodychecks, it's just barely. I'm not even sure that he can. Wait, didn't we all have a big argument about this already?

SPOD after f+P+Gor d+P+G or whiffed rising kicks gives you (non-escapable) guaranteed damage.

Unless I'm drunk, this is how it's always worked. You can spod a whiffed rising attack in any version of the game. Any time you whiff a slow move (which the rising attack is) you can expect to be creamed. It's especially true of rising attacks because the opponent can see them coming more easily, there are only two things you might do while lying there. As for the f+P+G and d+P+G guard breaks - they only break your guard - your opponent must be blocking for the guard break to cause that special "whoop, my arms just flew up in front of my face!" animation. So it's not as if guard break, spod is free damage anytime someone wants it. It's essentially a 45% throw, which I will admit is pretty strong. Also, I think you may want to test these (the guard break-spod). In VF3, the
amount of stun that f+P+G created was less than the stun d+P+G created. I'd bet that only d+P+G staggers the opponent long enough for a SPoD because that move is slower and riskier. If it hits normally I think you could throw akira in VF3, not sure about VF4... but anyway akira's at a disadvantage if it hits without a major counter.

----

Ok, that's it. I fully support the thrust of your argument that Akira is a pig.

 

You CAN be killed by two bodychecks! And the most damage I have witnessed from one bodycheck is about 70%, thats WAY OVER half. If I can remeber correctly Dai was playing Lion and I think he did his new jumping kick that ends back exposed (Chibita uses it after the D,f+P+G throw if that any help). Anyways Jason (who shall now been known as BODEEECHECKAAA Akira) dodge bodychecked Lion whilst he was in the air, backturned and lets not forget the side hit. All these things contributed to Probably the most damage 1 move has ever taken in the history of VF.

Oh and that was in the MIDDLE of the ring, no wall damage or anything. Would shudder to think what damage it would have taken if the opponent had hit the wall!

With regards to block guards, it is possible to SPOD after f+P+G, but granted you have to be close and in closed stance.

I think the SPOD take more than 45pts, it is VERY difficult to get out of the dash, df+P afterwards, against poor strugglers you could tak on u+P instead. But the thing is that's a lot of damage for a whiff. With Kage I could probably get a d+K+G, which is about 30pts, reasonable damage taken for a whiffed attack me thinks.

But Jacky has the best whiff punisher in the game with P+K,P,K, man that move is fast and damaging

 

Screw the SPoD, if you're pretty sure the opponent is going to throw, then do QCB+P. It does more damage (100 on any normal hit, every time), no worries about fucking up the motions, is not reversable, and best of all it's totally uncounterable (way to go, Sega!). Behold...the power of CHEESE.

Im not 100% sure, but doesn't that move come out a lot slower than the SPOD? If this is so, then In the situation i outline above, SPOD is the best choice. I agree with shang that QCB+P is not a substitute for the SPOD.

Regarding Akira abeing forced to use his more advanced moves/techniques against good competition, i pretty much meant that moves like SPOD and DLC (great in exploiting clutch ring-out situations) must be used.

 

> Im not 100% sure, but doesn't that move come out a lot slower than the SPOD

From what I can tell (from counter list) it's only slightly slower than the spod. Almost any mC situation where you can spod you can do QCB+P for much more damage.

> If this is so, then In the situation i outline above, SPOD is the best choice.

Well, if you're betting that the opponent will throw - which is the main idea here - then speed isn't an issue, is it?

 

1, Advanced technique doesn't just mean how hard is it to input. Throw escape, not even RTE, is definitely "an advanced, tough-to-learn technique".
Of course this goes beyond just Akira; it's the reason why vf is so damn hard to learn. Honestly, when was the last time you consider someone who's RTEing a beginner?

It's true that RTE or RDTE is not something beginners use, but like you said, it's not just akira. We aren't discussing whether or not VF is hard to learn... we know it isn't. In that case, we might as well say NO character is easy to learn because VF itself is tough to learn. So the answer to this -

Again, I think we lack of a common definition here, are you saying a beginner is someone who has understandings of the game already and just never played Akira? For many, that person isn't a beginner to begin with... If tomorrow bungle plays Akira fulltime, is he a beginner?

He's a beginner Akira, sure. Of course it's not like Mr. Bungle has only picked akira one or twice his whole life, so for him to jump into VF4 akira would not be a completely foreign thing. What I'm saying is that if we're going to talk about beginners learning a character, they have to be past the point where they have learned the important basic stuff like blocking, getting up, etc. If we didn't skip past those things then we'd be mixing in how hard VF is to learn with how hard Akira is to learn.

2, Akira doesn't have any safe chain attacks which makes him hard for beginners. Unlike Jacky who can do hhmhl, mhl, ll stuff The most Akira can do is PP, Whopee!

Well, all the hhmll stuff does is force the opponent to guess between blocking high, blocking low, or dodging. Because this stuff is canned, I find that I really SLAUGHTER beginners who use it, while a beginner who's playing akira CAN'T use it and must therefore force guessing games like the traditional d+P --> shrm or throw. Another prerequisite for our definition of beginners: They have to have a brain. In tekken I see a LOT of beginners who rely on that game's cheezy canned combos to force simple high/low guessing games. These beginners don't understand basic fighting game strategy, they never worry about what the opponent will do next. So a beginner with no brain who relies on canned combo guessing games (watch any pai do PPPsweep or PPP, b+K all day) is not going to understand akira. Learning any character for them will be hard because they are predictable, and canned combos make them easier to reverse.

3, Akira's moves need multiple inputs or prerequistions.

Anyone with basic dexterity won't faint at having to do f,f,f+P vs. f+P. Sure, f,f,f+P takes a split second longer to enter on a joystick, and the designers probably meant for it to work that way. I don't know if you're saying akira is tougher because the command is more difficult or because it's more time consuming than a typical f+K knee, but I don't think either one matters.
As for his moves needing a crouch first ... I don't expect them to crouch dash, d+P gets them crouched just fine. Super dashing elbow doesn't need the crouch first, and it's nearly as strong as the shoulder ram. Moves like b,f+P, d/f+P+K, and QCB+P are all examples of attacks that lead to strong combos and don't require a crouch.

And Creed you keep on saying you someone can learn the DLC in a day, and SPoD is a bit longer. This is just not true..there is no way a person can learn DLC in a day and pull it of in a match consistently at the right time. No way! impossible!

Way, garth! When VF3 came to maine I played vs. the CPU for two hours the first time, the second time I played dodee, and I asked him for a couple of games against the CPU and then played a real live human the rest of the day. I DLCed with like 90% consistency that day. On normal sticks, it's still going to be like that. I'm not a freak of nature, I think you give DLC too much credit. It's far easier than spod for me, I still cannot SPoD well. If you say that DLC's too hard for a beginner, that's fine, no need for it anyway.

Now as for QCB+P being a replacement for SPod, why not? Yes it's slow, even slower than the stun palm... but when do you SPoD in combat? I see most spods occurring when the opponent has lost initiative and is forced to either block or try to beat a throw.. for example after a high rising kick is blocked you will see Akira SPoD people while they reach for air trying a throw escape. I don't see good akira players SPoDing out in the open, when the opponent is free to do any attack and interrupt him. The ONLY thing worse about the QCB+P is the slower exe time. Being uncounterable and impossible to fuck up is a BIG difference. I know you won't consider this good proof of anything, but the Akira who almost won the daioh tournament has a win rate of 90% over about 2200 games, and he does LOTS of QCB+P. I can't recall seeing him spod at all. Of course I've only seen a dozen of those 2200 games, but he lands QCB+P alllll the time, and proceeds to dodge and bodycheck for insane damage. He dodges and bodychecks even if the QCB+P fails to hit, and the dodge-bodycheck does pretty insane damage too /versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>uk-kid</font color=red>/versus/images/icons/mad.gif

 

You CAN be killed by two bodychecks! And the most damage I have witnessed from one bodycheck is about 70%, thats WAY OVER half.

Your arcade operator absolutely, positively, definitely, assuredly, guaranteedly(?!!)has the lifebar settings LOWER than the 200 point standard. You can only go one notch lower, but in an effort to do suck you dry I bet he has gone that extra notch. 60% was the unholy-best-bodycheck-ever damage in VF3. The situation you describe is uncommon. (blocked mini-pounce - I think that's what we're calling it)

I think the SPOD take more than 45pts, it is VERY difficult to get out of the dash, df+P afterwards, against poor strugglers you could tak on u+P instead.

SPoD is a mere 70 points on paper, if VP's source was correct. Ack, jesus, but I did the same thing you did a minute ago, I meant it's about 45% or 90 points. VP has it at 35%. I have a faint memory of someone QRing after the last hit of the SPoD, but I may be faintly full of shit there. I'll have to check my movie archive. In any case it's always been a bit tough to get out of the ground punch. The SPoD is a strong tool, granted. It shouldn't be taking off move thant 50% on your lifebar, unless akira gets a MC pounce afterwards or something.

 

Hrmm..define chain attack please...because wouldn't the dlc be defined as a chain attack?

 

I don't see good akira players SPoDing out in the open, when the opponent is free to do any attack and interrupt him. The ONLY thing worse about the QCB+P is the slower exe time.

I don't know about many others, but becuase of my defense oriented play i like to SPOD the moment opponents whiff moves, even quick recovery moves. It is invaluable in that instance. Also, again above average players will hardly fall for the situation u mention (after blocking opponents high rising attacks) more than once. GTE toatlly neutralizes that threat. So i haven't watched that many recent clips, but the Akira players in many of the Japanese clips that i have seen definitely don't use SPOD in blocked high riser situations. They do use SPOD a lot when opponent is rising, after having conditioned them with f+PG guard break - another instance when SPOD is a great tool.

These particlular situations (making opponent whiff moves - even quick ones and SPODin' when they get up highlight the importance of the quicker execution when compared to QCB+p.

 

You're right, spod is great. I wouldn't expect an expert to be without it. I would expect a beginner akira to be without it but I'd still be scared of anyone who knew QCB+P --> bodycheck.

 

You missed the word 'safe' "Akira doesn't have any safe chain attacks which makes him hard for beginners."

Ok Ok. Creed, you win. I'm going to see if FFX is worthy.

 

Actually it's always been possible in every VF game. Bodycheck max damage is 120 points.