Moves you'd exorcise from VF

I would go with Lion's double low kicks that I think Modelah mentioned in the OP.

Also Shun's punch,punch,low kick, high kick because it's really lame that it knocks you back the way it does. It should just be a regular combo.

And Pai's is a pretty stupid move if I am honest. Why the hell should you be juggled through the air after being struck by her finger tips?

Sarah's a*s in your face move. All moves that attempt to strike your opponent with your butt should be banned.

Vanessa's lie down stance. It's a really dumb stance and she can do better than that.

 

Aois yinyang.

 

Jacky's KK its -15 on guard and no knockdown.
Jacky's 2K Smash low kick WORSE LOW IN THE GAME! -14 on guard with no follow up cuz Fake elbow is a cancel move. 2KK 2KP SOMETHING making it worthwhile.
Sarah's backslide. They need to add moves that allow her to go into backslide not FS then get launched.
Tracking needs to be toned down. Thats what circular strings are for.
Jacky's SS K. I dont know why they changed this. it used to be able to cancel and it staggered.
Bring back staggers for spamming lows and get rid of the 2 choice for CH lows. This was the reaction based part of the game along with MTE
Jeffrey's Tow Kick~Splash Mountain. Just give him back is original

 

Come on Lion's 2KK is not a combo on NH and not even on rCH if I remember correctly Even if you get hit by the first kick you can block the second on reaction and launch him (he is -18).

Some things I would change on top of my head:
Jacky:

• 1P+KPP. Put it at least -6 after first two hits are blocked (-8 would be fair, but come on, give us at least a nitaku for blocking two mids that can give a combo, with two possible followups). Either give him no pushback after third hit or make it -18.
• Remove K+GK unblockable in closed stance
• Make 1P -4/-5 on NH
• Maybe either make 4K+G -10 (it's kindah similar to goh's 4K that is -10 and gives less damage) or make it slower/less range.

Lei:
-8P+K+G stance should get CHed when he is hit by non punch attacks, or at least he should not be knock down in a way that allows him to evade moves that usualy give combos (ex Akira's 3K+G,P+K)


Akira:
-Make 1P -6 on block but change class to double hand cause it REALLY looks like it's double handed but its not, or change the animation so that it makes sense.

 

Same thing for Shun's handstand wouldn't hurt either.

However, as far as Vanessa is concerned, her two VF5 vanilla pointless moves (DS hold / and OS ) have been removed, so i can't complain, good job dev team.

 

I forgot to mention the really annoying low kick from Lei which causes a stagger and then they get you with the hop kick.

 

nooooo not aois yin yang

 

@Chibitox Just no. K+GK needs to stay unblockable in opposite stances because it makes sense. All K Circulars push you back on guard which keeps them in those frames so the character wouldn't have time to guard the low + its a 24 frame move.

1p needs to stay at -1 on NH because its used for Gwe chuie SSP to high crush attacks. Plus its like a punch low not a kick. the kick lows are usually -4 to -6 on NH

4K+G should stay at -8 because it has a Slam effect + jacky is 6'0 so it would have range + its 20f how so slow should it be? Jean's 2P+K and Sarah's 4K+G are the same at -8

1P+KPP pushes you back because he lunges foward with that last P. its -16 so just use a launcher or a mid. it actually hits.

 

the stagger is really slow, u do know that? A normal speed stagger escape can get u out of that.

 

I concur. Tenchi In'you is one of my favourite moves in the game.

To be honest I never really attempt stagger escapes since I don't have a stick. Is it even doable on a controller?

 

It is...just extremely hard. Add to that lag if you play online, and you might as well not even try...

 

Yeah that's what I thought.

 

In short, Jacky needs to stay top tier.

 

It depends upon which move you use. Brad can hit him with 6_K when he's in that stance and it launches him, even though the hit effect is a normal hit.

Anyway, moves I'd exorcise...

Well, I don't agree with the majority of this things I've read in this thread. The stuff that I'd like to be changed are:

Sarah - She shouldn't lack so many launchers against Taka. Make it so Flamingo Stance K+GK and the Flamingo Stance P2K string launches him.

Pai - 66P -> WS K should lead to a guaranteed wall splat on normal hit.

Jacky - Slide Shuffle P should not be +1 on guard and force a crouch. I'll be generous and say make it -4 without forcing a crouch.

Brad - Make his double-limbed attacks have that property. If they're not simply because Aoi lacks an animation for reversing an elbow and knee attack, give her one.

 

1-If it makes sense why is he the only one who got the low unblockable ? If we admit it is then give it to the other chars. Why isn't Brad's K+GK unblockable too ?
2- All chars circulars are around 23 with a very few exceptions. It doesn't matter anyway the move is perfectly usable on someone's wakeup/TR

1- That doesn't make much sense either. You could change the cancel frames to still have the SSP properties but have the move -4 when not canceled

2- one of the closest move in the game is Pai's 3P (a linear low P that can go into stance). Guess what ? It's -8 if not canceled...

You are justifying the pushback with the animation, which is precisely what is discussed as something that could change.
Most mid launchers are 17 frames not 16. And a lot (most) chars get shitty damage on this one cause they don't have 46P type moves. I've even see this move be -15 because of the range. At least make PK hit. When you guard this move it means you have made 2/3 good decisions (not hitting a button when he had the advantage and went for the first hit then 1/2 other depending on the delays) When you are against the wall Jacky even gets good damage on the last hit which means the he gets the same damage as you if not more for certain chars after you did 2 good choices.
I mean when will it stop ? like in VF6 he will have a 5 hit mid string that is -17 and it will be OK ?
And what about the -5 on the first two hits (mid,mid) on block, who else has that ?

 

It's actually easy even on pad. Just wait a little before struggling.


Removing Tenchi ? Why not removing Aoi while we are at it ? Pffff

What moves I would exorcize.. everything chibitox mentionned for the Jacky's part actually.
And his sweep.

Akira: the guard break and the +7 for 3P+K NH

Taka: 4P+KP

Kage: useless moves like 8P+K, 66K+G

Jean: 66P's properties on NH & blocked.

Goh: the catch throw followed by 5 different follow ups to guess...

Aoi: the multi part throws. To guess beetween only 2 directions while against most characters you have to guess beetween 3 follow ups, or even 5 against that stupid Goh ?

Vanessa: all the + on block moves.

All guard breaks what allow a free damaging combo.

 

Removing Taka's would make him as lethal as lettuce. No thank you.

And while we're at it, his armored swipe shouldn't be duckable!

 

@Chibitox Brad's isnt unblockable because its a standing low circular. The total frames for Brad is way slower and it doesnt combo on normal hit.
it needs to stay at -1 because each stance step transition move has different frames. lf you test jacky's 1p on sideturn its +2 and SSP+K can crush everything. at -1 it can't. changing 1 frame would not allow jacky to high crush.

If you have such a problem with the 1P+KPP animation then DC needs to be changed. But how else whould a mid,mid,mid come out? Hardly any characters have 3 in a row. Its not justifying, its the only way the mid could come out. What other animation could they have after a mid elbow to a mid P without him lunging foward? And it being at -15 is just lag.

Pai's 3p is 21 frames jack's 1p is 19. hers being slower would obviously change the frames plus she doesnt have frame advantage for her bokutai stance. The only way i can see what your saying is 1p without using SS to make it -4.

 

Don't worry, SEGA is working on it, half of the VF5 vanilla + on block moves are already gone

 

Again I don't get your way of thinking. You are justifiying the blockable/unblockable properties by mentioning the frames where its exactly what is being discussed AS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD CHANGE. I'm not asking to explain why it's not unblockable for Brad based on frames but rather why SEGA decided to make it like that and not Jacky's ?
Jacky already has the possibiltity to go into stance from the K+G for shenanigans. Why add that stupid unblockabl ?

Not log I remember toying with the move dojo and got -15 several times.
For the last hit you could keep the same animation without the pushback and no one would be shocked.
Moves like Wolf's3K+G looks stronger in terms of impact and they don't get that pushback and no one is shocked.

Yes I'm talking about normal hit non canceled from the start, I already explained that ^^