Need assistance with proper ground recovery.

Alrighty, a friend and I were playing today and I was doing quite well. My Jacky, Goh, and Shun were at about 80% winning against him today. Mainly playing Jacky. The problem came when he found something I couldn't deal with.

Situation 1: Jacky VS Pai for the example. If that matters any. He would juggle me and when I landed I would techroll (usually into background) to press on the fight. Only problem is that he kept hitting me with his pounce as I was standing up or already standing up. Looked pretty damn shady.

Situation 2: Jacky VS Pai for the example. If that matters any. He would knock me down and I would stay down. He goes for a pounce and I attempt to roll to the fore/background to attempt a side/back attack as his pounce whiffs. Problem is as I was standing or already standing I would still get hit by the pounce. Grrr...

What exactly am I doing wrong? I would say at least 75% of my losses to him were because of my poor recovery abilities versus his pounce.

What is the safest way to techroll or rise/roll from laying down to avoid his pounce?

 

People are looking, but nobody is helping. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

This is weird, it shouldn't be happening.

In version C, three characters had a dive attack / high pounce (u+K+G) which could be done at any time: Pai, Aoi, Jeffry. This could be used and abused in strange ways - jeffry could use his to squash side rollers just as they finished their roll and in that way get a little extra damage after certain throws or combos if the opponent wasn't wary of the trick. Aoi and Pai could reliably crush any sort of rising attack and if the opponent got up in place they'd get squashed and be unable to guard it as well.

All of this was fixed in evo, a minor point I haven't seen reported - if jeffry tries to u+K+G as the opponent side rolls (like after an XPD), the game refuses to acknowledge it and makes him do a high kick. If pai tries to do it during a tech roll or side roll it seems to turn into a hopping spinkick (she says 'anaiwa!'). Aoi is the only one who seems to have retained some of her cheesability - she can squash tech rolls with her u+K+G, though I haven't yet figured out if there isn't some way you can block it or use the no-guard trick to make it whiff. If aoi tries u+K+G during any other situation she gets her crescent kick.

So anyway, in short, tech rolling should ALWAYS beat pai's u+K+G pounce and normal u+P pounce. Siderolling should IF you aren't lazy and don't struggle too little or too late. Pressing P+K+G to quick rise generally causes you to eat pounces. Also if the opponent ends the combo in an attack that slams you to the floor (like pai's K,K) then you will have to work to escape a generic pounce.

Maybe you can set it up or give us a specific example? His pai stuff should have whiffed or shouldn't have come out at all.

If you're going to do anything, tech roll every time - except vs aoi. If you're going to choose not to tech roll, do the wakeup method that has reliably gotten out of the ass bombs and akuma dives even in version C: hold back and tap guard rapidly to roll backwards.

 

It definitely has me perplexed. The AI rarely hits me with a pounce unless it's guaranteed. Today I just could not avoid his pounce no matter what I did. Although, I never did a backroll. I'm usually afraid of getting steamrolled if I do. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif Neither of us have to work tomorrow, so I am sure we'll be playing. Then I can give more specific examples.

According to him he was just doing +, which he has a habit of everytime I hit the floor. Guaranteed or not he goes for it. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Today it was working for him some. I couldn't tell well if he was hesitating any to start a pounce during my roll or not. He has a habit of hitting buttons even when I'm not near. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif Can't complain, because it's better than beating up the AI. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Creed:

First of all, those dive attacks were specifically programmed to beat side rolls. AM2 deemed this to be too good (which I agree with, especially for Jeffry) and adjusted it accordingly.


replicant:

Your first situation sounds fishy...are you sure that's what's happening? Pai's pounce ()is hitting you on a tech roll?

As for your second situation, that's more common. In some situations you may have to roll backwards instead of sideways in order to avoid the pounce. Or you're just doing it too slow. However, pounces can hitopponents rising from the ground and can even MC rising attacks.

 

Like Ice-9 says, try rolling backwards sometimes, or if that's what you're already doing, try rolling sideways. The + pounce of those characters should be able to be blocked by a standing guard if they are not executed correctly. You can even evade it or back dash out of the way. They look different than the normal pounce. So figure out which on they use and beat it with the appropriate action.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Just a few days ago, I was playing with this guy (don't know him) in the arcade. Btw, he was the one who challanged me and he too has the habit of doing a ground stomp () everytime when my lau hits the ground. And this is despite that I tech rolled out of his pounces all the time. So his sarah always ended up eating my SP combos but I am not complaining /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif (good practice for me).

I agree with ice9 that it could be that you executed the techroll just a little too slow. Unless it's a pounce-guaranteed crumble/fall, the situation you described is uncanny (scratch head).

Maybe you can try adjusting the timing of tapping the or ++ the next time you practice with your friend.

Cheers!

 

Just guessing here but

replicant, are you holding guard during the techroll? That causes some moves to track somewhat, maybe even normal pounces...

 

|I know exactly what you're referring to, Replicant. You look as though you're out of the way, but then suddenly you're hit by the pounce. I'd start techrolling in the opposite direction, and I would also ensure that I am doing a perfect TR (hit |+++ *once*). It's common to TR and hit the buttons multiple times. What happens here is that your extra button presses constantly re-align you with your opponent. By doing a perfect TR, your opponent's pounce will more than likely whiff.

cheers,

 

3of19/Llan: I'll keep that in mind. I think I do have a habit of holding guard near the end of the TR so that might be my problem. Looks like I have to untrain some stuff in this department. My friend seems to be sleeping in (It's 2:30pm /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif) so hopefully we can play soon and I can test some of this stuff out.

Also, I just bought Def Jam Vendetta so I'm sure I won't play as much VF4E this evening. WC and DMX are gonna be breakin' fools this evening. RAR!

 

those dive attacks were specifically programmed to beat side rolls.

Eh? You specifically talked to the programmers?
The fact that they crush someone getting up without an attack isn't a unique property... part of the trial training teaches you to do the same thing with (for example) a sidekick. I think sega just didn't anticipate that any attack could reliably smack high rising attacks, low rising attacks, and risers. Once it was figured out they nixed it.