Need help about some basic move

Hello

I have start to play with Goh since few times , and it's clear he's a very interesting caracter.
So, like I'm a noob, I have difficulties on some basics moves, I speak about strikes that can became grab after hit.

Abarakudaki-Yomiokuri
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (Counter hit) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

Murakumo
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(guard or hit) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

Nioudaoshi-Niousatsu
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(counter hit) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

Mekira (not so basic n fact)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


For the moment, I can use successfully only Murakumo, because I have find the good timing (I enter the grab command when the feet of Goh is just beneath the neck of his opponent).
But, for the three other strikes, I try, try, and try again, but I don't find the timing. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

I have understand that the delay between the strike and the grab is approximatively one frame, but it doesn't help me.
It's very frustrating for me, because this "kind" of "special strike" for other caracter is not so hard to do . /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

So, I'm interested by any tips you can give me, VF5 masters ^^



ps : my appologies for every english grammar mistakes I have do. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

 

No, it's not 1 frame. It a helluva lot more. The timing for most hit-throw and on-hit strikes in VF is pretty lenient.

As for f,f+P (and most this kind attacks in general) you don't want to hit the follow-up just as it hits but after it hits. This one is very simple, just wait till it connects as CH and hit b+P+G.

Pretty much the same thing with MC df+K+G:f+P+G, wait till it connects. I'm not sure if the timing is a bit more strict than f,f+P or if the slowness of the move just makes it seem like it but it's still not a very strict timing.

f,f+K+G is the only one that has to be timed pretty much to the hit instead of right after. But you said you can do it already.

Basara P+K+G, b,df+P+K, f+P / b+P
actually has no timing at all, just do it as fast as you can. As long as you have inputted the second part by the time the first hits you get it and same for the last.

 

Very thank for your quick answerd, I will try this as soon as possible ! (but I can't promise to sucess :lol: )


Kiitos !

 

Another over skilled french in English.
Awww, my eyes are bleeding.

 

Vieille pute édentée -_-

 

For performing the Basara make sure that your input is clean enough. Enable the input panels in Dojo mode to really check whether you enter the correct inputs.

 

If you are in Dojo make sure you have the CPU set to counter hit to practice Goh's hit throws.

They will not work on normal hit.

 

And also, moves like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif do not throw-in when hitting on maximum Long range, even on MC.
(Note: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif does not need MC, of course).

 

Ah ? I didn't know that range could affect the hit throws. So is basara an exception for this ?

 

I'm not quite certain what Sugata is trying to tell us (throw-in?). From what I understand, though, he claims that those mentioned moves don't connect to hit throws at max range (?!).

 

personally I've never noticed the range I connected with the move to affect if the Hit throw comes off. The timing changes a bit, but that is all.

I don't main a character that is heavy on this type of thing, but when I do dabble I haven't noticed this feature.

 

Exactly, dude.
I.e. at maximum possible range, when /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif still hits (even on MC)-it is Long range, - they do not turning into a throw, regardless of the timing .
This is REALISTIC, because judging by the animation of move required to be a little closer to the opponent to transfer strike into a throw.

 

It is totally realistic to assume that for the real world. But in VF5 rules are different and have been simplified to master tons of animations. It's no coincidence then that we have quite some teleporting going on in the animations department of the game (see Tsukami Grab Teleport) - if a move's animation wasn't quite optimized for long-range connects. The mass of different animation for the 17 characters spanning cast in VF5 seemingly forced the animators to narrow down the amount of special-case animations, such as a long-range hit-throw connects.

While I can neither disprove your nor underpin my argument with a sequence of tests (as my Xbox 360 is still broken), I'm leaned to share Tricky's point - that the timing is slightly off when you connect those moves into hit throws. I'm not entirely sure but that's what my experience with Goh in VF5 and my gut feeling tell me.

 

I never noticed that with any char. With Akira you can Spod if the first hit connects at any range.

 

The truth: for any timing. I've tested this. I am 100% sure that one's does not go into a throw on long range, regardless of the timing!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, Basara - have not, like that, range's restrictions to continue.

 

I did few tests and they seem to confirm what Sugata said. The /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif hitthrow does not work at max range. The move has 5 active hitframes. I think this might mean that the hitthrow only works during the first couple of those active frames.

 

I didn't know that you had already tested it. Then, knowing you as dedicated VFer, the case is pretty clear to me: certain hit-throw moves do not connect from max range.

 

Same to you also ))

By the way, what do you think about that (possibly together with others Goh's players) create a theme: Gog's optimal follow-ups on certain frame status by this concept:
+8:
a)Against Aggressive player (Abare);
b)Against Defensive player (Moralist);
c)Against Neutral or Unknown player.

+7:
+6:...

-1:
-2:..

And so on...it should be very usefull to build scripts depending of the Opponent's psychological type.

 

I'm a huge fan of any kind of data that helps improving your gameplay in VF5. I mean, who isn't?!

But the problem comes with VF5 itself: the sheer number of options a player can choose from, conditions and states both contestants on the battlefield can be in are utmost overwhelming. This makes collecting viable information that helps for winning more often really difficult. The more data there is, the less universal the formula, the more specific the situation and its "cure."

For your proposed project, SUGATA, I see those hurdles:

1. Is it really possible for the player to internalize all kind of situations by their frames and play styles of the opponent? (I reckon a fairly realistic number of play styles is five or six.)
2. Can the player even recognize the opponent's play style soon enough?
3. Can the player adapt fast enough if the opponent switches his play style in the process of the match?
4. If the players adapts, too, does it then even make sense to prepare static situations - based on frame data - with the "optimal" response for your opponent?
5. Isn't it in the end all just yomi that you have to do on-the-fly? What is an optimal response?