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Need help understanding side-turned game

Discussion in 'New Starter' started by synce, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. synce

    synce Active Member

    I see topics about ST combos but can't really find an explanation of this mechanic. In sparring I noticed attacks are safer if blocked from ST but damage and hit properties seem unchanged... so it's just about added pressure?

    Also what's "bound"? I see the term often but it's not in the glossary

    Thanks
     
  2. Daydream

    Daydream Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Daydream CE
    EDIT: Refer to Marlys post below for side-turned game.

    "Bound" is a property of some moves that let's you continue a combo where your opponent normally would hit the ground and thus ending your combo opportunities. For example, while juggling somebody after you have launched them into the air, a bound move will make them hit the ground and then make them bounce back up for some additional combo strikes of your choice.

    An example of a move with bounding properties would be Eileens [4][3][P]+[K].

    Since you have an Eileen avatar, try this combo against Pai or other lighter chars to see exactly what I mean;
    [4][6][P], [P], [4][3][P]+[K], [6][K]

    Notice how the "[4][3][P]+[K]" makes Pai bounce back up, that is what a bound is. You can of course change the "[6][K]" part after that for more damage.
     
    EastBayKage likes this.
  3. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Short Answer #1: Attacks that connect against a side-turned opponent have their frame advantage increased, depending on the unmodified base damage of the attack. I believe the increase comes from the amount of time it takes for the opponent to recover and realign themselves in combat.

    Short Answer #2: Damage is not changed, but because of the additional frame advantage, the situation can be changed in the form of guaranteed followups or guaranteed strings. As you mentioned, some situations change into safer situations... a classic example is Jeffry's knee: if guarded normally (-15), there is guaranteed punishment. If guarded while side-turned (-15 + 6 = -9), there is no guaranteed punishment but Jeffry is at a large disadvantage. Reminder: the modified increase in advantage is based on the base damage (normal hit damage) of the attack.

    Short Answer #3: Bound is a term that I assume is borrowed from Tekken (particularly Tekken 6). It basically means an attack that, in a combo, slams the opponent into the ground causing them to bounce back up for more hits. It often looks like an overhead attack like a downward punch or a downward axe-kick. I think it is actually official VF lingo in Japan as well, but I'm not certain of this.

    Hope this helps ^_^
     
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  4. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    This isn't correct or even a good general rule. A better explaination is when sideturned it will take 3 frames to block (or evade), so if you're opponent is sideturned at -8 they won't be able to block an 11f high attack like jab. The can however DUCK the attack, as those 3 frames don't affect ducking, attacking or jumping.
    Don't believe that you can't be 2P'd out of your jab when your opponent is at -8 and sideturned.
    If your move is blocked by a sideturned opponent i usually makes you move 3 frames safer. If you used a particularly weak move, it'll only be 2 frames safer, and if it was a big damaging move the bonus is 6 frames.
     
    Manjimaru, Chanchai and Daydream like this.
  5. Daydream

    Daydream Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Daydream CE
    Ahh I see. Good correction. When I think about it I knew I could be 2p'd out of jab attempt at +8 sideturned. With the same formula I posted Eileens 4PPK would be guaranteed from 6P+G6 for example but it's not. Didn't know about the difference in bonus frames though. You have any examples of 6f bonus advantage?
     
  6. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    Eileen's 9K from sideturn on block is -9 instead of -15.
     
  7. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    To get the 6f bonus a move needs a base damage of 25. Eileen doesn't have that many moves doing that damage.
    I don't think it's 6 frames from BT. 4 frames to block, then the next couple are blocked ST as far as I can tell.
     

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