Netflix Cobra Kai and Virtua Fighter????

It looks like the Cobra Kai Netflix series might be creating new interest in fighting games from a whole nutha angle.

Several ppl that have recently friended me in Ghosts of Tsushima Legends matches asked me in one way or anutha did Virtua Fighter feature any of the fighting styles from Cobra Kai. One of these ppl was a young lady that had recently tried Tekken and didn't like all of the shenanigans. I told her VF was a clean no nonsense Fighting Game, that has clean Karate, Judo, and Kick Boxing She has since picked up VF!!!!!!

Cobra Kai has been in top 10 Netflix series for a while now, its on the 3rd season. From the feedback I'm getting it seems like the series is bringing interest to FGs from a new crowd

I hope these indicators are correct. This would be good news for Virtua Fighter X e-sports. If there is a renewed pop-culture interest in Martial Arts like Karate, Tae Kwon Do , Judo, and Kung Fu because of the Netflix Cobra Kai series that happens to spill over into FGs, it spells very good news for Virtua Fighter X e-sports. Tekken and DOA have long since started to go the route of 'Brawlers' and their focus is not as much on classic martial arts as it once was. Tekken and DOA are now all about simple fighting and brawling. There is a lot of rage art in Tekken unfortunately not much martial art . Virtua Fighter is the only 3D FG where the Martial Art style of each fighter is prominently shown on the selection screen and there is a focus on classic martial arts styles in the game.

It might be the case that some of the same crowd that gets into the Netflix Cobra Kai series might also be able to get into spectating Virtua Fighter X e-sports matches. It would be nice to attract not only new players, but ppl who are spectators of VF matches who don't actually play Advertisers like those kinds of spectators. And its the Advertisers that will keep the e-sports thing going.

 

Tekken 7 plays like a Martial art, on a high level. Low level Final Showdown play looks just as much like shenanigans as beginner Tekken play. There's no need to denigrate other fighting games in order to laud VF. In F S Goh has strings that end in a throw, something they copied from Dragunov.

Cobra Kai is in its second season on Netflix, not its third. Season 3 is next spring. If you actually watch the show and I recommend you do, there is as much brawling in that show as martial arts. Its realistic and its the greatest thing to happen to that franchise in decades . Rage arts are crowd pleasing stunts. FS was made to favor more aggressive play to speed up the pace of matches to please the crowds spectating.

 

Yeah, but Dragunov copied that strings that end in throws thing, from Wolf Hawkfield and Vanessa Lewis. And Dragunov's frankenstein design, and combat movement is based on VF4 Goh. Even people back in the early 2000's noticed that, and made fun of namco copying VF character ideas back then. Dragunov wins off of stylistic movement. But Goh wins because he can properly evade, has (well had) a ton of throws, and can naturally attack through opponents attacks. And that is thanks to VF's combat engine and moves. Otherwise, Goh would be a bland crappy character, depending on juggles, wave dashing, glitches, and floaty mechanics to win matches, like that Dragunov character, and many other tekken characters.

 

No Hawkfield and Lewis have no such moves. They had defensive move P+K which does a throw, that's not a string. Ok kid? Beanboy let me know when you win Your first match in VF. Goh now has strings that end in a throw that don't require the player to press P+G. Thats 100% ripped off from Dragonov, a character in a game that's supposedly so inferior but Sega keeps imitating. Hwroang had kicks string that were all positive on block since Tekken Tag 1, something Sega copied with Sarah's flamingos stance 100% in VF4 and 5. That is the most anti-VF feature I always hated in Tekken, and revered VF for not including. Having attacks being safe on block or worse yet actually positive on block is something that reared its ugly head in Tekken first, then infected VF through imitation. The fact that Sega adopted this dubious design choice ended the notion that VF can look down on Tekken from a holler than thou perspective.


Both companies used to have a tit for tat copying each other in the early VF1 and 2, Tekken 1 and 2 days, then in later years it's been mostly Sega integrating Tekken like features just to keep up with Tekkens growing sales and arcade competition for dominance.

Anyway, about Cobra Kai , respect the Hawk! Hawk was the break out star of that series!! Even the way the kid fights exemplifies his personality. Youtube Red deserves props for introducing that show. The show runners shopped it to Netflix in it's first season but those idiots at Netflix passed on it initially.

 

Third season is already filmed. It has a tentative date of January 8th. I've watched every episode of both seasons, some episodes more than once. I'm fully aware of all the of the fight scenes in all of the episodes including those episodes which have fight scenes that have offensive moves or defensive moves that could be interpreted as brawling.

The context for the human drama that plays out in Cobra Kai are the two martial art dojo's their sensei, their rivalries, and the philosophies of both dojos about the raison d'etre of martial arts. Virtua Fighter is a fighting game that showcases martial arts styles!!! The emphasis on martial arts styles is one of the distinguishing hallmark features of Virtua Fighter. The Martial Arts Styles: Tiger Swallow Fist, Judo, Karate, Monkey Kung Fu, Kickboxing, Shaolin Kung Fu, Drunken Master Kung Fu, Sumo, Aiki-jujutsu, Bajiquan, Praying Mantis Kungfu, Wrestling,Vale Tudo , Jeet Kun do, Mizong quan, Hagakure ryu Ju-Jitsu, Lucha Libre are at the very center of the Virtua Fighter series. The styles are emphasized and distinguished by the animations and featured in the game menus and game manuals for Virtua Fighter.

On the other hand Martial Arts fighting styles are not mentioned anywhere in Tekken 5,6, or 7 games. There are mentions of martial arts inside Tekken 4 game manuals, and I believe in early versions of Tekken. But Tekken began minimizing the importance of martial arts styles starting with Tekken 5 by virtue of not mentioning it in game, and adding new characters that for the most part were brawlers. Leroy (Wing Chun), and Fahkumram (Muay Thai) exceptions. Although the words Wing Chun, and Muay Thai are not in the game menus, or selection screens or anywhere else in the game that I'm aware of. Even the Mishima Dojo stage in Tekken 7 is not anything like a classic gym, dojo, or kata area.

I'm not denigrating Tekken to laud VF. I'm simply stating classic martial arts styles, themes, and customizations are at the center and focus of the Virtua Fighter series, and they are not at the center of modern day Tekken. Modern day Tekken is only about winning or losing in spectacular fashion by any means necessary: e.g. baseball bats, tigers, exploding robot heads, X-ray eye beams, bear mauls,etc.

High level play in Tekken and High level play in Virtua Fighter are apples and oranges. Shame on you if you don't know and can't see the difference after all these years!!!!! Even if you consider the best players in the world in Tekken and their best matches in comparison with the best players in the world in Virtua fighter and their best matches. Tekken matches fall very very short in every category that matters.

• Virtua Fighter matches at high level are beautiful, elegant, and truly a martial art in their own right. Virtua Fighter is literally a unique digital martial art. In Virtua Fighter there are no comeback mechanics, there is no rage art, there are no meters, fireballs, projectiles, or explosions. Its balanced, has a tight fighting game engine, and the animations are diverse and representative of the martial art they are associated with. VF requires skill, yomi, and classic martial arts level discipline.

• Tekken on the other hand, has comeback mechanics, gimmicks, rage art, projectiles, broken characters, a complicated (as opposed to complex) game engine. It has homogeneous movelist capabilities, high level play overly reliant on frame arithmetic, excessive dependence on launching and 5,6,7,8 hit combo's that result in wall splat pressure hobson' choices where he who launches first and most often wins. Tekken high level matches feature a gaudy kluge of 2D and 3D fighting techniques. The explosions , over the top pyro technics, and contact graphics obscure any martial arts moves that a Tekken character might be making (for those characters that use martial arts). As opposed to the beauty of high level Virtua Fighter match, a Tekken match is ugly, where pyro technics of the hit effects are more important than the character animations and movements.

Whereas, intermediate to high level Virtua Fighter matches often look like martial arts ballet in motion, Tekken matches look more like car crashes and train wrecks of fist, foot, color and explosion.

@ICHIBANin10000 I've played sooo much Tekken, I really, really, really, really want it to be better than it is if for no other reason than cognitive dissonance. I played Tekken before I knew what Virtua Fighter was. Every time a new Tekken is released I quietly root for it to win. Sadly Tekken has moved away from the beauty of martial arts and towards brutish brawling , street fighting ,graphic bonanza of pedestrian 2D fighting game crowd pleasing

The Virtua Fighter series is much closer to the martial arts in Cobra Kai. New players looking for a FG experience in the vein of Cobra Kai will be much closer if they play Virtua Fighter than they would if they got into Tekken 7. Spectators who like to simply watch Karate, Tae Kwon do, Judo, Kempo, Muay Thai etc, competitions/tournaments are more likely to enjoy spectating Virtua Fighter matches than Tekken matches. Modern day Tekken matches do not look anything like real life martial art matches of any kind. On the other hand many intermediate to advanced Virtua Fighter matches are reminiscent of classic martial art tournaments, competitions, and movies

Cobra Kai Netflix series is very likely to have a significant positive affect on 3D Fighting game sales (for both Tekken and Virtua Fighter). However, I hope that Virtua Fighter benefits the most

 

Tekken while not as fixated on the 3dimiensional aspect of fighting (Sideturned situations) still has it's merits. EG low parry, which every character has , multiple part throws (King), more options for wake up ( I love the two leg takedown option on wake up.) And The fact that the former and the latter are universal across the board levels the playing field. You don't feel like you are giving up one option by picking a different character. Just because some people play Tekken like a fuckhead doesnt make Tekken a dickhead game. You can approach it tactically and intelligently, and have a good time playing it.

Neither Tekken nor VF are simulations, they are just games, and therefore are in some ways deficient when compared to actual martial arts. They both have their weak points and advantages , they are just different. I had to get that notion out of my head that VF5 FS is some martial arts simulation, or I would never start to get better at it. It's a game, and as such its rules are arbitrary, and you have to approach it that way or just get destroyed.

Neither game is 100% realistic martial arts at all anymore. The fact that VF5 FS has combos that include hitting an opponent that is 1 inch off the ground with a standing punch throws that notion out the window. That kind of thing started in Tekken. VF used to be way more regimented and organized. If you wanted to hit a prone opponent, all you could do it with is a ground punch/kick or a pounce. Its not like that anymore, and the fact that VF has so many rules that they themselves break with so many exceptions, there's no wonder Virtua Fighter X Esports is looking to reboot the whole game.

As much as I like the fighting in Cobra Kai, most of the characters are just 1st year students so a lot of the fights devolve into a brawl, especially the final one at the end of season two. Thats just a fact. Role playing as a Shaolin monk is no substitute for actual 30 years experience in Karate. Posing and posting eyeroll emojis doesn't validate your layman's observations one iota. Rolling your eyes is a girl's reaction anyway. Then again so is a predilection for emojis. Look season three is not out, obviously production stalled because of Covid. Whether the release date is January 8 or October 8 2021 is irrelevant. It's not out right now so it doesn't matter. Get your facts straight.

 

Agreed, neither game is a martial arts simulation. Agreed both are games, and as such have rules, strategies and techniques for winning. Agreed both approach a similar subject matter from different vantage points. I do play boxing and mma combat simulations so I know what a combat simulator game tries to go for. But that said:

It is the visual presentation and animations of Virtua Fighter that pay a great deal of homage to classical, traditional, and movie martial arts. Many of the moves 'Look the Part', or are taken from classic Martial Art Cliches. The overall "presentation" of the game tries to put you into a classic , traditional or movie martial arts space. For the time period that Virtua Fighter was created it was as close to a martial art simulator that you could get in an Arcade environment. If you go back and dig around in the initial Virtua Fighter magazine reviews and interviews you will see Yu Suzuki refer to VF as a combat or martial arts simulator. But at best Virtua Fighter only approaches the martial arts from "some" of its visual or presentation aspects, and some of its classic moves and stances. If you notice which each version of VF, the floating animations have been tuned down, and more stumbles, slips, stagger and fall animations have been introduced. The weight classes help with this also. Look at Taka animations. Virtua Fighter looks more realistic than Tekken and has a more realistic martial arts presentation than Tekken.

Tekken is not going after the same kind of martial arts presentation as Virtua Fighter. The minute bears, pandas, kangeroos, robots, androids, vampires, monsters, etc were added to the roster: That Martial Art "Presentation Simulation" goes out the window. And we haven't even started talking about the fireballs, whirlwinds, sparks, devil metamorphosis, tele-porting or spiked baseball bats. And we could leave out the rage art, rage drive, meters, and comeback mechanics altogether.

Sure they both are arcade fighting games that more or less feature some kind of hand to hand combat. Both can and do involve very highly skilled players and highly sophisticated game play and both approach this brand of arcade fighter and similar subject matter with a great deal of expertise albeit differently. As I posted, I routinely root for Tekken.

When I really want to play a martial arts combat simulator I do frequently and regularly play THQ's UFC games, EA's boxing games, and EA's UFC games. These are not perfect simulators, but they're close enough and are still actually just games.

But when I want to play a classic, traditional martial art themed game, with a classic, traditional martial art presentation Virtua Fighter is the best game available. Tekken use to at least come close. But the introduction of Alisa, Azazel, Gigas, Lili, Eliza, Lars, Negan, Noctis added to Roger, Roger Jr, Combot, Kuma, and Panda just catapults me right out of the martial arts immersion. At the start of match I select Feng Wei, or Leroy or Lei Wulong and my opponent picks Gigas, Negan, or the Vampire lady. At that point Tekken no longer even "looks" like a martial arts match

Virtua Fighter may only look the "martial art" part and may not play like a true simulator.

But Tekken doesn't look the part, or play the part.

Yes they are both categorized 3D Arcade Fighting games, but Virtua Fighter has a classic, traditional martial arts presentation, and Tekken does not.

And personally, I have dabbled here and there in various martial arts over the years. I've learned a little of this and a little of that. The only art that I got serious about and have devoted and still devote serious time to is Kendo, and to a lesser degree facility with a bo staff.

And all real world fights (if they actually make it to multiple back-n-forth exchanges) devolve into what looks like a brawl, unless someone gets the advantage right off the bat and can end it fast. It doesn't matter whether the combatants are 1rst year or not. I have seen, been in, ran from, started, and finished my share of some very nasty fights in real life. A real life fight, and combat as a sport, or martial arts demonstration are very very very different things. There are no rules, or rings, or judges, or limits to a real fight. Most real life fights (between adults) don't end until someone is seriously hurt or killed, or is lucky enough to run away. Yes agreed, in a real life fight whatever you're doing is going to look ugly, be sloppy, and awkward and at the very minimum look like a brawl. In that respect at least some of Tekken's aesthetic gets it right

What makes Virtua Fighter so nice, is that it is far more realistic (in its presentation) than Tekken, but not as realistic or arduous of a simulator as the UFC mixed martial arts games. So a crude analogy:

UFC Games --- Martial Art Facts

Virtua Fighter --- Martial Arts (Non Fiction)

Tekken --- Martial Arts (Fantasy/Fiction)

Cobra Kai is a lot closer to Martial Arts (Non Fiction) than it is to Martial Arts Fantasy

 

You definitely seem to be a semi VF noob dude. And this is coming from someone who plays VF4 Evo Wolf, Sarah, Vanessa and other characters, such as myself.

Wolf has


Vanessa has








And those combo strings into throws, were in VF long before pizza burger delivery boy Dragunov, ever appeared in a fighting game. Maybe you should play some VF4 and VF4 Evo, and check out the moveslist for those characters, which have been in the VF4 Evo game manual since 2003, instead of calling people kid, old man.

I think those strings into throws, that I mentioned above, are in the VF4 Evo moveslist section of this forum. I'll have to check and see if they are there.

Me, I am more of an offline warrior. Meaning I don't have to worry about lag or molasses netcode, when I fight or beat people. Worse, if I go online, many people will get their butts kicked on the first day, I go online. And that might be sooner than later.

 

I would have watched Cobra Kai, but Mr. Miyagi not being in it kept me away. Nice to see the original actors return though.

 

Miyagi kind-a makes appearances through flash-backs