NEW FINAL TUNED GRAPHICS! LOOK FFS NOW AND I MEAN IT!

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

Please. Josh, tell me the *risk* involved in drinking between matches?

Now, if Shun were to only get DPs from drinking in the match, I'd say keep it at 3 for sitting/lying. Add in the zero risk ability to drink between rounds - reduction to 2 is a good trade-off.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

I gotta say I think that really sucks for Shun players...

I mean I don't think anyone will argue that Shun without any DP is one of the weakest players in the game... He has a whopping -two- throw directions with guaranteed damage at that point (plus one surprise exchange, dunno if that is guaranteed or not)...

Since it was possible for Shun to both gain and lose DP after a round I'm not sure how anyone could complain about it... Sure no other character can power up after a round, but the fact that he can makes him a more interesting character...

Hoping they buff shun in other aspects to make up for that...

-Alex

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

what is the risk of drinking during a match? well, normal drink only gives you plus 1 DP, and leaves you completely open when you are executing it. basically, it forces you to run away if you want to be able to drink. drinking from the laying position during matches gives you 3 (for now) but leaves you lying on the ground. and from sitting....he does this ridiculously slow stand up animation that can be countered by most any move in the game.

itazan (the shun from the Evo replays) says that the only thing he can see resulting from this is that there will be tons of "chicken" shuns (running away all the time). that is not fun, and it doesnt add anything to the game in terms of balance.

its not like he was an overpowered character in evo, you dont hear about shuns winning tournaments all the time.

unless they also lower the requirements for his moves (but then, why change anything at all?) then i see nothing but runny diarrhea bullshit in this change.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

"there will be tons of "chicken" shuns"

There already is...have yet to play against a shun to prove otherwise. If you have to rely on drinks to win with shun then you suck and should use a different character. Think of drinks as a bonus not a necessity.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

want to make a bet you can still take off dp? Sorry, it sucks...its a reward, albiet not nessisairy, but a very gratifying reward. The risk is, as stated by other readers, all the work needed to get DP during a match...this helps offset it.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

Hey guys,

Please play some competent Shuns before making some of these ridiculous statements. Shun w/o drinks is like Akira w/o SDE. He needs 10 drinks to start becoming a threat then at 16 he becomes super dangerous so figuring out how to get the drinks off of the last hit of the match is a big part of his game. Now that he gets less, it'll take much more work for him to become threatening.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

>bmf

guess you have yet to seen any japanese shuns. his wake up game is way too good to just lay back and take your 1 measly DP after knock down. they drink by throws, throws, and after round drinks. there is a whole science of using the right attacks to get in the last hit so that you can get 6 drinks instead of 4. people even lose rounds trying to finish the opponent a certain way to get their drinks.

i have seen no info about the requirements for moves, but this puts a serious dent in shun's game, esp his 16 and 18 Dp requirement moves and combos.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

[ QUOTE ]
BMF said:
If you have to rely on drinks to win with shun then you suck and should use a different character. Think of drinks as a bonus not a necessity.

[/ QUOTE ]

And why exactly should drinks be considered a bonus? You can't just arbitrarily pick a part of a character's game and say that someone sucks if they can't win without it or that it's only a bonus and not necessary. What's stopping me from saying "Yea you suck as Wolf if you can't win without using his throws" or "You should think of Pai's speed as a bonus but not a necessity"? That's retarted.

I think the drinking and sobering between rounds keeps things more interesting because you have to keep in mind what move you want to kill your opponet with in order to maxamize drinks and soberage. For example, as Shun if I want to get 6 drinks at the end of the round I have to be careful what move I kill my opponet, and if the move doesn't hit or kill the opponet and I've buffered in the command to lie down I'm screwed. On the other hand, Akira can't kill Shun with a double palm and expect to drain 5 drinks once the round is over.

Even with the nerfs to the number of drinks you get from sitting and lying down, it'll still be possible to get 4 or 5 drinks between rounds (but more difficult.) If you kill your opponet in the right way you could simple p+g or, if they are just standing there you can p+k+g and then f+p+k for 5 drinks (considering f+p+k is now +4).

What's up with all this Shun hating anyway?

 

Leave my drunkard be!

Are people forgetting he gets the ability to fake drinking in FT > attack and so on already? Or has all the FT info about drinkstealing being nerfed for basicly all characters so far (only second hit steals drinks! blaha) gone by like the wind? I have no doubt that a FT Shun in general will have more drinks then a Evo one - atleast people should wait to see and prove me wrong /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/KiwE (Yup, otherwise fine with teh Shunman drinking between rounds myself).

 

Re: Leave my drunkard be!

Don't see the Drink points as a bonus more as an essential part of his game, well if you want to win anyways, seeing as a lot of shun's play chicken then nerfing this ability seems strange, as above I'm guessing there's now other ways for him to gain points. Still hoping ft= Tuned and not changed for the worse.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

The 'reward' is not being able to drink between rounds. The reward is better moves, more damage, etc during the match. It's the moves and damage that offset the risk of drinking during the match, not the between-round slurps.

The Shun's I've played who are 'competent' (Shou, does Namflow qualify for ya?) have no issues getting drinks during a match with throws and single drinks, often without lying/sitting down. I don't see this change greatly affecting good Shuns from drinking.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

I do...as a shun player, its a significant part of his game...as namflow already took the time to really write out an explination, I Don't feel the need to echo his words.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

Now for the information you've all been waiting for:

TOPLESS OUTFIT ITEMS!!!!!

As seen on the cover of the new Arcadia: (http://www.arcadiamagazine.com/product/arc_051.html)

The majority of them will just be shirtless versions of the character like the one above. Here are some notes from ones that are not just plain topless:

Pai: Swimsuit
Aoi: "Exposing" (hopefully that means topless)
Lau: Shirtless w/ tattoo
Sarah: Swimsuit
Kage: Chainmail
Jeff: Less fat, more muscular, blood vessels showing
Vanessa: White (YEAH THAT'S RIGHT)
Goh: "One white mantle" I have no idea what this means.

Here's the thread if someone wants to translate further: (http://www.vfbbs.net/vf4bbs/test/read.cgi/vf4/088644196/)

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

Well, had you echoed his words you would be taking a position that's eerily similar to my final comment: "I don't see this change greatly affecting good Shuns from drinking." Operative words 'greatly affecting'. Namflow makes it pretty clear that the change makes it slightly more challenging between rounds, but not that big of a deal.

What I think would be an interesting study would be to go through some media footage of SHU and see how many drinks he has by the end of the matches he wins. I have no idea, but would love to see if he's highly dependent on drinking between rounds, etc.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

I clicked on the thread, hoping to see 25 new posts about FT info...only to find a debate on Shun's drinking problem!! The answer is obvious: drinking more with Shun between rounds is ALWAYS better. So the downgrade to 2 DP makes it more challenging...but how can we conclude he's weaker?? AM2 isn't dumb--I'm sure Shun will get something else in return.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

[ QUOTE ]
What I think would be an interesting study would be to go through some media footage of SHU and see how many drinks he has by the end of the matches he wins. I have no idea, but would love to see if he's highly dependent on drinking between rounds, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well from having a quick look he usually has 10+ drinks at the end of a match. Considering that winning two rounds alone will give you (on average) 8DP that seems pretty normal but SHU doesn't seem to use DP dependant moves alot - He's damn good with or without any drinks.

Can't wait to see all the changes for Shun.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

[ QUOTE ]
Llanfair said:
The Shun's I've played who are 'competent' (Shou, does Namflow qualify for ya?) have no issues getting drinks during a match with throws and single drinks, often without lying/sitting down. I don't see this change greatly affecting good Shuns from drinking.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, at the time you played Namflow, I wouldn't have called him competent. Maybe now that he has Japanese experience, he is but there are 0 competent home grown Shun users in the West. When I say competent, please realize that I mean players whom fully understand & apply VF concepts and game/system knowledge (there are perhaps less than 10 players that do this in NA). Mukatsuku is a 10 dan Shun from Tokyo whom Cappo and I have been playing with regularly for over 2 weeks. I've seen him get up to 9 drinks between rounds and turn around a match due to it. Now that the sitting drinking has been reduced to 2, he will get 6 at most and it obviously makes it harder for him. Of course, different characters have different methods of sobering and game play so how many drinks Shun can get within rounds will vary. An example with Sarah, Shun uses attacks such as ++ and + which are P counterable. I will use Sarah's to take off drinks instead of just the normal or flowcharts but I will only get to take 1 DP off and she doesn't have many moves to reduce them between rounds (++ being the best at taking 2 DP) so drink management is rough. Before 10 drinks, I am breaking + and switching between the other 2 directions all of the time so manual drinking is the only way to get drinks besides at the end of round but Mukatsuku knows if he tries it, I will Dragon Cannon him for 1/3 life if he tries the standing one and the sitting one will take 1/4 life. Without 10+ drinks, Shun cannot cause any intimidation in good players. He has no 14 frame mid, his throw game is nothing to players who can DTEG, EMTEG, AMTE, etc, he can't punish big low moves on blocked with chouwan, only with ++ and the damage is minimal until he gets more drinks. When I see him going beyond 10 drinks and then getting the 270 throw to add 4 more drinks, there is more of an intimidation factor there. His damage is higher for combos (possible 100 dmg+ combos), canned combos will actually combo, he gets a legitimate throw game with and normal being your main concerns so he can use and even if his drinks have become high enough. Drinks are obviously crucial to his game especially against super sobering characters such as Akira, Jeffry and Lei Fei who can take upwards of 5-6 drinks per round win which is not even taking into account their special sobering combos so Shun needs to be able to counter this with the drinking he is able get when he wins a round.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

[ QUOTE ]
Dandy_J said:

Now for the information you've all been waiting for:

TOPLESS OUTFIT ITEMS!!!!!

As seen on the cover of the new Arcadia: (http://www.arcadiamagazine.com/product/arc_051.html)

The majority of them will just be shirtless versions of the character like the one above. Here are some notes from ones that are not just plain topless:

Pai: Swimsuit
Aoi: "Exposing" (hopefully that means topless)
Lau: Shirtless w/ tattoo
Sarah: Swimsuit
Kage: Chainmail
Jeff: Less fat, more muscular, blood vessels showing
Vanessa: White (YEAH THAT'S RIGHT)
Goh: "One white mantle" I have no idea what this means.

Here's the thread if someone wants to translate further: (http://www.vfbbs.net/vf4bbs/test/read.cgi/vf4/088644196/)

[/ QUOTE ]

Aoi - "sarashi" - bleached white cotton. I am assuming this is something like tradition underdress for woman. Anyone knows?
Vanessa - Skin tone change.
Shun is the one with the one white mantle.
Brad - Holster (hope he has a gun to go with it)
Wolf - Scars

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

"Considering that winning two rounds alone will give you (on average) 8DP that seems pretty normal but SHU doesn't seem to use DP dependant moves alot"

Exactly...with 0 drinks Shun still has chowan, d/b+P+K+G>P, K+G, d+K, plus a ton of other bullshit moves...what else do you need? haha ...and anyways if you can get 6 drinks after a round then you would only be losing 4 drinks during the whole match with the change in FT, which seems very insignificant compared to Kage's f+P+K losing it's sobering ability...

By the way, I love Shun as much as any character I play...Just seems like you Shun players are having a fit over nothing.

 

Re: NEW FINAL TUNED INFOR

You guys are making a far bigger deal about this than it should be.

This is nothing more than reverting back to the way it was in version C. Version C days shun would only get 4 at the end of a round. Lying down to drink was impractical and rarely seen among good players during a match then and now.

In evo you can only get 6 at the end of a round by picking the move you use to kill your opponent anyway; it wasn't a universal situation.

With all the changes you see with other characters Shun players shouldn't be concerned that they wont make alot of additions for his lack of being able to tack on another 2 drinks at the end of a round.

A few frame tweaks and drink property changes and suddenly pp, d+k, k becomes unblockable on 13 instead of 16, something like that. It's a moot issue.

Instead lets switch the topic. FT seems to be a bigger upgrade than C to Evo. Now alot of you may be saying Evo introduced 2 new characters but the idea of new characters making it a bigger upgrade is a capcom/snk/namco tactic. I think the system changes in FT of making the red counter yellow counter are a much bigger deal. Learning how to deal with 1 or 2 new characters is nothing compared to learning how to deal with a few system changes that effect all characters. To the the system changes are a much bigger deal.

Has anyone seen those NOA video's? Did you see those red swirly energy lines around the opponent when they got hit? I wonder if thats the red counter being shown.

Graphically speaking it looks like Sega is starting to try and appeal to the younger gamers finally. The menu totally looks like something out of a Sammy game. Instead of the neat looking character selection menus with clean simple fonts from 1, 2, 3, 4C, 4 EVO, we get this wild font with huge fire background. The style seems so different.