New Guy askin some questions about VF4

I'm new to this sight but so far all the people here are cool. I was just wondering how good u guys are at VF4 and wanted to know some of your rankings in VF4. Well, the character I am the best with is Kage and I am in the emporer ranking.
Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There was a character rankings post a little while back, try that.
Search for ranking.
As for how good we are at VF, keep this stuff in mind:

1. How good you are at beating the computer doesn't mean anything at all, it's all about the vs. play. A lot of guys can get emperor vs. the computer but only a handful can do it vs. real humans.
I guess it's fair to say that anyone who can't beat the CPU is prolly gonna suck vs. humans.

2. People can always lie about their vs. cpu rankings anyway.

 

I don't know about guys who can't beat the CPU sucking against
humans. There's a certain degree of precision and advanced knowledge
(obviously) with the CPU, just as there's certain dead zone factors in the
CPU's play; on the one hand, Jacky's auto-parry ALWAYS works when
controlled by the CPU, while I have never seen the CPU do a move I saw
while playing a human recently: some kind of straight forearm elbow thing, very
strong, unless I just missed it when the CPU did it.

The AI cannot be rattled either, and therefore is always two or
three steps ahead. I can demoralize a human player with a giant Lau
juggle against a wall for monster damage, just takes the wind out of
them (we're not talking experts here, either way). Against the CPU,
there's no emotional context, no human fallibility. Just machine-like
adherance to the next set of moves by that particular character.

I think if you aren't good with a certain character, you won't beat
EITHER CPU or humans. I know that much. It's all about finding
the best character to use at any stage in VF development, if you're
a rook like myself.

 

i think you misunderstood Creed here, what he means (from what i understand) is that raising ranks against CPu in Kumite is nothing compared to raising your rank in Vs. mode with human opposition why?
1. in kumite against the CPU you dont have to look for opponents, they're all lined up for you, all you have to wait for out of the endless number of enemies is a same rank opponent, while in VS. there's not as much opponents compared to what the CPU has, plus the fact that getting a chance to fight and beat the same rank opponent as many times as you need to increase ranks are somewaht slim

2 CPU skill, i dont know about you but CPU opponent ussually use the same tactics, patterns and stuff, while human players tend to change tactics and attack patterns almost immediately after a technique no longer works.

I think if you aren't good with a certain character, you won't beat EITHER CPU or humans
this is a fact, if you dont invest effort in getting better, then you're just gonna suck

It's all about finding
the best character to use at any stage in VF development, if you're
a rook like myself.

its really about prefferance on which character you feel you would like, for example some like Lau, Jacky Leifei, etc because they can use him with ease, while SOME like using all characters. any character has the potential to undergo any circumastance handed down by the game, it really all up to the user of the character to bring out this potential. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

I dunno if either of you got me...

to lau fists: Yes, you will definitely suck vs. humans if you can't beat the CPU. Maybe not vs. ALL humans, but vs. good humans. The cpu is, brainswise, somewhere between an average player and a spastic scrub. You can find use simple patterns against it over and over again, for example vanessa's charged b,b+KG... or anyone's d+P --> throw.

Also... raven I think you said something about using different characters for different stages of development, or how some people prefer using a variety while others like not to mix it up...
my recommendation is to stick with the same character throughout your learning. Once you've reached a point where you've learned them well and are competent (hard to define competent here) then start fooling around with everyone else. Switching characters before you've fully learned the game will probably hurt your chances of learning.

hmm, I'd better stop before this sounds too preachy.
I've developed a head case from reaching emperor in kumite /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

 

I am in agreement about sticking with one character until you're
proficient with that character, if indeed you want to be competitive
within VS or Kumite. I hit 5th Dan with Lau, which I can't even crow
too loud about, since Lau is just one of the best characters in the game
and a monkey could probably get to 5th Dan with him.

I've started a Lei Fei because of the great contrast in style, which
allows a little more cerebrum stimulation. I hate to say that, because I
think it takes hard work to get anywhere up the Dans with any character,
but if I had a 5th Dan Lei, I'd feel like I was TRULY in control of this
game. And if that was a Shun, I'd think I was hot shit, even against the bloody
CPU.

I feel pretty good about my Lau play, so I feel free to work with other
characters. The only defense for the idea of mastering multiple characters at
once is the inside information it gives when facing those same opponents.
I have much less trouble against Laus, Leis, and Shuns since I started playing as them
regularly.

 

Yeah, against the CPU - about 5th dan you have attack patterns which generally work against everyone.. I've not changed my style for ages... I'd imagine all layers are quite different, so it's harder...

 

ok let me clear this part up

this prhase : its all about finding the best character to use at any stage in VF development was a statement given by Lau_fist, and what i meant when i first replied to it was that any character has the potential to be the best as long as the person using the character finds the time to invest training in the character, and that you really don't have to find the best character because there is no best character ( they just have the potential) the skill comes from the person who controls the character (meaning its not the character thats great but the person who weilds the character), all the character really has are a bunch of moves, without someone controlling and manipulating these moves they're worthless, like i said before its merely preferrance ( this topic is now on Preferance ok) of who you want to use, which leads to the example of Lau fist himself, he chose Lau because he can use him effectively, and has much more ease using Lau compared to other characters (Just my assupmtion), he preferred using Lau because of his effectiveness in battle which lead him to train his skills with Lau, so basically they have a liking to the character and was able to put out the characters potential which is why they are the persons Main character, ( still on preferance) while others like me would prefer to have no main character and represent all the characters equally, and invest in getting good with them, this is how i prefer it so i can be used to the different styles and not just stuck to the restriction of a single character, hence its not about finding the best its about who you prefer to be good at. hope its clear now, PEACE and yes i know i could have made it shorter than this, so please just let me slide /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

 

i have to agree with the people that say kumite is nothing compared to VS. i thought i was kick ass with shun di and i get to versus and my friend is kickin my ass with a person i had no problem facing in kumite, the fact of the matter is, virtua fighter's main meal ticket is the versus, kumite is just a distraction to get your rank higher, and i think that rank doesn't necessarily show how good you are

 

and one more point about kumite, it's soooo fucking boring. watching Big Brother at 4am is more exciting.

Optimus Prime: One shall stand, one shall fall.
Megatron: Why throw away your life so recklessly?
Optimus Prime: That's a question you should ask yourself, Megatron.

 

Kumite can be boring, and there is no doubt that VS is preferred,
but what do you do when Kumite is all that you have? I think
players who profess the comp to be easy are using the easy methods
to win against the AI, because I don't think a lot of players are willing
to lose if they played the AI move for move. If you can do the same
throw three times in a round before the AI does something about it, then
that is what you do. Kumite is probably not for advanced players, then, but
only for newer players and players looking to keep sharp in between
real human matches. You can only play so many faceless CPU minions without
growing tired of the repetition.

If you have a real interest in learning the character's entire
movelist, and it's possibilities, then Kumite can be an interesting
game, because you're trying to win while thinking of how you want
to finish the match, with flair, or with a particular throw, rather than just
assuming that yes, you can sidekick three or four times in a row before the
comp catches on and blocks it. If Kumite seems boring it's probably because
the players' gameplay has become boring, or they've lost interest in the
character. Maybe then it is time to try someone more new, more difficult, and
then see how boring Kumite is when you don't have the moves down or have
the canned combo you're used to at hand.

 

OK Lau_Fist no offense, but let me ask you a question, when you fight, lets say a Jacky that's 2nd dan and then fight a Jacky that's 5th dan dont you notice the same type of patterns and attacks they do, i mean its obvious they just become faster in their reaction time but they still do the same lame moves, your giving them too much credit for Being Cpu's sure they can capitalize for a few human errors but they definitely cannot comply with humans that aren't bound to the programming of the game, meaning a human player has the ability to change combo patterns every 5 seconds,we can progress in terms of performance and capabilities, plus the fact that most characters carry the styles of the human player but the CPU will still stick to whatever data it was given, and their styles are based on the charcters, (as opposed to human players) i mean dont you see that, and no offense but because their boxed up with these limitations they will never copare to human opposition, and yes for someone with experience on both CPU and human opposition, the easy method of winning against a CPU will be used against the CPU, Why? because the CPU will not compensate for the easy method unlike a human would, and it not that the person is bored of the character, its not neccessarily that, its just simply the lack of challenge the CPU will provide against a human with good skills, get my drift?, this is one of the reasons the easy method of beating a CPU opponent is being used , because of the fact that experienced players won't feel the need (or some cases the effort isn't needed)to put out so much effort to win against the CPU, and i already explained why, (CPU's lack of ability) keep this in mind, for those who played the game for quite some time and experienced both human and CPU opposition, the difference is uncanny, coz in the CPU it based on the characters style, where as in human opposition is based on the players sytle not the character, also if you're looking for human opponents try going to the Jamboree board and post about you place asking if anyone plays VF in your town/city (don't be shy /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif ), and maybe at first you wont find good competition, but like i said human tend to progress while the CPU does not, once you've faced a fairly skilled human opponent you'll notice the difference for sure, like i said keep in mind that there are more limits to the CPU's skill than human opposition. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

No matter how many hours you invest into kumite it's still boring. Granted you can practice a particular move or Juggle but I'd rather use training mode at least I can do it more that three times in a row. I already know the whole movelist for VF4 and for characters I play and I tell you what just like in all previous versions of VF 50% to 60% of the moves are useless and VF4 is an improvement compared to 1, 2, and 3, so why should I bother. Let me give you an example, you do your new nice looking flowchart finishing move in kumite it works well then take that to an arcade it's a different story it will be like SDE DJK for a third your bar the CPU Akira never did that WTF. Anyway VF is about the mind game the superior reaction and hand eye coordination which the CPU lacks completely in all three.

Optimus Prime: One shall stand, one shall fall.
Megatron: Why throw away your life so recklessly?
Optimus Prime: That's a question you should ask yourself, Megatron.

 

First of all, I'm not saying human play is not where it is at. I get
all geeked out reading about the tournaments and human on human
competitions (real players, not just anyone), just like anyone who digs VF.
And I've stated that Kumite is probably just extended training for good
players, a way to keep sharp. For scrubs like myself, Kumite still represents
the BASICS of every VF character, supporting the learning curve I'm currently
undergoing. I DO see a difference in higher Dans as opposed to lower, obviously (CPU).
I don't think the Jackys fight alike, even under the CPU. I fought two 5th Dan
Jackys in a row in Kumite the other day. One Jacky swarmed my Lau, the other smoked
him from the outside. There was two DISTINCT Jackys, even though I
recognized everything being thrown at me. ALL characters throw out the same
moves, and humans aren't THAT different. I'm not going to play humans and
suddenly see things I've never seen before, or be utterly shocked at how
DIFFERENT Lion's knee pecks seem when done by a human. The difference is in the timing,
the buffering, the spacing in order to set up something else. The CPU isn't
going to do that, just like it won't lure you to the edge of the ring and do a
RO throw, unless by accident. The CPU characters are NOT all fighting the same way. I'm sure to the venerable
skilled eyes of you VF human-playing hotshits out there, there's little to no variation
where the computer is concerned. And that is the point: Kumite is for we who are learning.
But it doesn't have to be a boring exercise: just because you're so skilled you automatically
use the easy, cheesy method of beating Kumite does not mean you HAVE to.
And I reiterate: if Kumite is so boring, players need to find new challenges. Pick up Shun Di,
go in and see how high you get, if all you know about fighting in VF is based on one or two
characters. My point is that Kumite is boring if you're adept with any particular character.
Rather than complaining how boring it is, pick up Shun and get 80% 10th Dan
in Kumite. If

 

This is where your argument is flawed you say pick shun and get an 80% win rate and go up to 10th dan to make kumite interesting and challenging like hell it will, for starters Shun is no harder or easier than lets say Jacky to do anything in kumite the CPU doesn't adjust to character and Shun is not a handicap character either.


Optimus Prime: One shall stand, one shall fall.
Megatron: Why throw away your life so recklessly?
Optimus Prime: That's a question you should ask yourself, Megatron.

 

<font color="33ffcc">You have the right idea about Kumite <font color="ffcc00">L</font color> and I urge you, unless you are crazy for items to play kumite as you would a human. Mix it up. Avoid the <font color="yellow"> cheezzy cheep charged moves</font color> (yup, I know you mentioned this *cough* except where timing is key, like in rising attacks and you will prepare yourself for advanced gameplay. I've still got lots of room to improve. yeah, sometimes a Jacky or Pai or Aoi will seem to read your mind, but a good human player will also exhibit the same mind reading/yomi. Try to anticipate a low kick and hop kick over it, etc. Against reversal equiped characters like Akira, Aoi, Vanessa, Wolf etc, I sometimes try to concentrate on two or three moves and 270 or HCB.HCF throws untill they start to escape and it is also fun to remember to practice your throw escapes against the CPU! Sometimes I only or concentrate on low punch throw and reversal follow-ups...it works for me... My game at the arcade is much better than it was this spring. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif You can use the Kumite to do the same for your game too. Read the guides here; they will also help you at arcade. Our household record for finishing arcade version in normal setting belongs to my sisters 12 year old son's Jacky. /versus/images/icons/crazy.gif </font color> /versus/images/icons/wink.gif Use the search feature here and check out posts by Alan Tan, hiro, Andy, kbcat, Myke... for starters. They all have considerable experience with excellent human competition.

 

bottom line Lau_Fist, you have not experienced VS, against humans to give comparisons, most of these are your assumptions, and prolly what you've read.

oh yeah 1 more thing, to show you that Jacky uses the same attack patterns, 1 example is whe the CPU jacky does the lightning storm combo (+) he doesn't finish it then he does +, if haven't noticed this in all the types of Jacky the CPU has to offer after the time you spent training trying to beat him, you dont pay attention to his movements very well, also example 2: when ever Jacky (any DAN level in CPU) has his back turned he uses , or , and you're saying he doesn't use the same attack, the only reason it looks different, is because (i've said this before but you dont seem to see it) they just get more agressive, and have a better reaction time. this sort of thing is very very noticeable, and i didn't say human dont tend to do these things (doing the same moves over and over) but when it doesn't work any more they do something else unlike the CPU, hopefully you've understood this, and hopefully you will try getting experience with humans of good skill, and like i said then you can really differentiate from both huamn and CPU, and will prolly make you better against the CPU.

and it also must have been invisible to you, but i stated that i don't have a main Character, meaning to say i represent any character equally, so telling me about trying shun means nothing coz i've already have, i have no prefference in characters i chose to play them all, and have tried or is in the proccess of improving the characters i'm using (which is all of them) and out of all i've gotten to Highking and emperor Aoi was the only one who got less than 78% and went to the lower ranking branch, but still when i got her to emperor, she had 86 % win ratio, my point is you're telling the wrong person to try a new character coz i've trained with them all, now im merely trying to progress with them. awright, Peace bro /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

While I'm a decent Shun player, I think he's one of the hardest to win with in Kumite. Why?

1: No powerhousing - you have to fake out your opponent, which is hard to do w/ the CPU
2: Attacks are weak. Most combos that do a lot of damage require a lot of drinks, and even then aren't as strong as say Lei's or Jacky's. As such, you have to get MORE combos in, which is hard against the CPU that can block anything it wants
3: I find it hard to do on my Virtua Stick, as it's not stationary -- a key move for Shun.

 

The same thing can be said about Aoi. I like to think myself an ok player to to truly realize her potential you have to be against a human so you can use all of her G-cancels and also read you opponent to use her reversels. She is the most underpowerd charater so kumite can be a bit more challenging with her.

And to the wall i just started jacky in kumite and have gotten to 1st dan but the battels are getting very difficlut. The computer could adjust the diffuculty of the cpu's not only on your level but also on the type of character you choose. Jacky is a combo freak with a ton of power while Aoi is weaker and has fewer combos. The comp seemed overly aggresive while i was playing my Jacky while it seemed very mellow while using Aoi. Could be that i suck with Jacky or am very good with Aoi.

Just thought I could bring it up and see what you guys think.

 

I agree -- I've made that post before. Of the characters I've used to any extent in Kumite, I think Lion was the easiest for me to climb the ranks, then Lei Fei. Aoi I got to 8-dan, but really don't play the PS2 version anymore. G-cancelling will get you killed in Kumite, which sucks, b/c it's such a massive part of Aoi's game, yet, the CPU doesn't really allow you to use it. You'll almost always get thrown or attacked when you G-cancel...a risk most human wouldn't do.

Two things that actually do work against he CPU but rarely against a human player.

+++
- actually, this does work against human players from time to time. Remember, that first isn't throw counterable. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif