New Guy askin some questions about VF4

When I play an opponent I try and exploit their weakness like if he doesn't do throw escapes then he's going to get extra throws untill he starts escaping, same thing applies with the CPU I just do normal + throw 3 times and get my 12 points of drinks then start doing Chowan juggles, if I loose 2 rounds then it's + throw and more Chowans combos and I'm there bored stiff BTW have you tried the Hori stick called Fighting Stick? It's solid and heavy.

To cooks94 while I don't play Aoi again it can't be that hard for her can it? It's not like the CPU is going to do a UKGuy ring out special or any half bar Akira silliness. Just spam throws if you get into any difficulty, she's got like nine to ten throws or something and the old multi parts do very good damage. Anyway I'm not saying that Kumite isn't hard time to time but I do some BS pattern and I'm out of trouble, but I know for a fact that I would have a harder time with Jacky because he got less throws to abuse, on a side note it's better than the arcade mode if that's your cup of tea but I still find it so dull, one time I actually fell asleep while playing, while I had my joystick in my hands doing moves (Hori Stick you dirty perves /versus/images/icons/smile.gif )


Optimus Prime: One shall stand, one shall fall.
Megatron: Why throw away your life so recklessly?
Optimus Prime: That's a question you should ask yourself, Megatron.

 

Aoi main game is confusion with her inasane amount of revesels and her g-cancel combos and attacks. The cpu doesnt pay attention to those kind of things so out go's some of her most important combos and such. Her game is to keep them geussing, you do a p,p,p,k combo then next time g-cancel for a throw. the comp doesnt pay attention to the g-cancle and just beats you. Aoi has some good comos at her disposal put her some of her starters come out slow. So playing Aoi against the comp is harder than say a linier combo character like Jacky or Lau.

 

I had a different (cheapy) stick b4 I located a Virtua Stick -- I can't use any other, as all VF4 arcade cabinets in Japan are standardized, and that's what I was used to, and didnt' want to get used to anything else. Wasn't about to sacrifice my arcade game for a good kumite ranking. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Let me tell you something, Wall, that is tee-total bullshit about
using Shun to get 80% 10th Dan in Kumite. Shun is EXTREMELY
difficult to use...but I forget, you're going to find the mind-numbingly
boring cheeze-filled method to use Shun to win, which will
probably mean doing, say, d/f P, P, K and falling down over and
over, or maybe d/b KK over and over and over, since the comp is
too stupid to defend these moves.

I've played just one human, and there is a WORLD of difference in
approach. I prefer the human element, of course. This cat is a game
designer and does this stuff for a living, and if he was serious about it
he'd KILL me in VF, at least initially. Before VF, I never played a video game or
had interest. Just didn't occur to me. I don't have gamer extincts, but
I've rapidly developed within the VF system, in 4's system rather.

We're talking about the CPU being a testing ground; the items make this
exercise more interesting, if you're into them. When I'm playing the comp, I DO play it
as if it is another human, and the only time I do that "three-times" cheese with
the knowledge that I can do the same move three times before the comp catches on
is when I'm desperate and on my last legs during a match. For me, Kumite is the best
competition I have, so I'm using EVERY move, spacing attacks, throw experimenting,
in order to learn how to use the character most effectively.

Don't argue the merits of human play to someone who prefers it.
But also leave all that juvenile "boring" talk. If you can't appreciate Kumite as it can be applied to your gameplay,
then you aren't appreciating the depth of VF, the ability to learn a martial
art with your thumbs. If you weren't so bored with your character, and moved on
to someone new, maybe Kumite wouldn't seem so mundane. At least until your
tried and true cheese shone through and enabled you to win, which is more important
than learning, obviously.

 

DEATH RAVEN, it doesn't matter if you're Aoi's 99%, you're using
cheap methods and tricks, most likely. I'm getting confused by which one
of you cheese-lovers I'm talking to in this thread, but the whole Jacky
argument is retarded. Personally, being a non-gamer (stated before) I have
trouble with fast characters, Pai, Sarah and Jacky. Because of my non-gamer
limits, Jacky's auto-parry in particular is a hindrance. If not for the auto-parry,
Jacky would be HALF of what he is, CPU-wise.

You're not talking to a professional here, and no professional would be walking
around without an A) primary character, the one you're going to identify with and
become a god with, and B) would understand what I say when I call Kumite an
extended training, as TRAINING mode has dummy AIs that aren't really worth your
time, if you intend on playing humans.

Try some comprehension when reading my posts. And try some damn punctuation too,
all you illiterates. Take some pride in your words so they can be understood. You guys
write like you're using a pencil stuck up your ass.

 

What makes you think that if he has a 90% win rate with Aoi that Death_Ravens cheating or if TheWall has 80% with Shun. It might be that you just suck ass with those 2 characters so dont talk shit.

 

lau fists, whenever my day is sad, you brighten it with your posts.

But seriously, my experience is that nine times out of ten, if someone says "this character is hard to use!" or "that move is impossible" or "beating the CPU in these conditions is hard!"
and if someone esle says "you're wrong"....
the 'someone else' is entirely correct.

Nobody believes that a SPoD or DLC or akira's knee can be done easily and consistently until they see someone else doing it or learn the moves themselves. Scrubs think you can't play someone like shun or akira using only a tiny handful of simple moves, until they play someone who does that (and does it well).

So if the wall says he can hit 80% and 10th dan without resorting to repeating one moves over and over vs. the CPU, you can bet the farm that this is correct. If I played shun I could very easily do it myself. The computer is flat out stupid and predictable.

This ends the nice guy part of my post.
--------------------------------------
<font color="#1A2362"> as for
If you can't appreciate Kumite as it can be applied to your gameplay, then you aren't appreciating the depth of VF, the ability to learn a martial art with your thumbs.

Jesus christ, VF doesn't teach you martial arts, any more than a tony hawk game could magically teach you how to not fall on your ass when standing on a moving skateboard. I don't know where people come up with this crap. Maybe on the back of the PS2 box or something. If you're playing kumite and think it's helping your game to try to play it like a human, you're wrong. It's just teaching you to expect the impossible from your human opponents ... impossible reflexes, impossible guarding or throw escaping ability, impossible stupidity in falling for the same pattern 100 times in a row.


At least until your tried and true cheese shone through and enabled you to win, which is more important than learning, obviously


I remember the word cheese as being the sure mark of a scrub in Street Fighter. Any time you threw the opponent while they were in blockstun, it was cheese. Sometimes just throwing was enough to piss people off.
If you don't want good players to think you're a scrub, you should keep away from the word "cheese" when discussing VF.

Besides, How the hell do you cheese the computer? I assure you that the computer doesn't give a shit how you win. If you want to play the computer exactly like you'd play a human, you will still fall into finding effective patterns that the computer falls for over and over again, the only difference is you'll lose more than you would if you'd just repeated 1 move over and over.
</font color>

 

dude how certain are you that i'm using cheap methods with Aoi, let me ask you if starting out with the following up with +, then backing up then doing , ++ and if they bite i go back to and the following up on either a weak down attack or a + against the CPU kumite, tell me is that cheap? answer that, and i never said you were a pro dude i merely said that i dont need to try out shun to know how hard it is to win with him because i already have, meaning what you ask me to try out is worthless coz i've done it before, and as for the CPU jacky doing the same things its not only him i just set him as an example because its obvious with him, an EXAMPLE dude, like if i chose Aoi as an example, then i would say all AOI's in every rank in the KUMITE does + G-cancel or throw, and in every rank of AOI she alsop does ,++, the dodges from YY stance then does +++, but now that you've stated that you are not a very experienced gamer i understand why you wouldn't notice them, and nobody said that kumite wasn't an extended training mode for someone like you, NO ONE SAID THAT dude, i said its boring, why? my example is JACKY (EXMAPLE ok you thick headed dweeb, and don't worry i know you don't notice these monotonous moves the CPU pulls off) and AOI. and with these examples is why there's an uncanny difference between human opposition and CPU, because while CPU tend to be accurate they also are only doing what was programmed in them, and humans tend to change tactics, the difference is not in the moves, and yes you wont see a move a human does that the CPU does however you will see different tactics. are you telling me you don't know this? on one of Ice-9 post ( about his trip to Japan) he stated that the players of VF in JAPAN, carry the character, (meaning their styles and tactics, is innovated by the player) does the CPU do that? i've been rolling around this point ever since i replied here, but you dont get it and you're telling me i shoulr try comprehension when reading your post, you're the one who didn't understand, i told you KUMITE is boring and you assumed i do cheap moves, i said the skilled players will tend to do it, a tendency, a chance if you don't understand, and you also came up with the assumption that i DON'T think KUMITE is an extended form of training for beginners, when did i say that?, and then i told you the CPU does combo patterns and tactics that are the same through out any rank and i gave you Jacky as an example coz you said you train in fighting him, but what you did is eliminate the fact behind the example (which is Jacky) and just focused ON Jacky, plus the fact that you told me try shun to see if i can fare as good as the other easy characters, and i said i play every character, meaning i've already tried what you wanted me to try, is that so hard to understand? plus the assumption of you now thinking i'm a pro due to my prefference of using every character which now strayed both of us from the TRYING OUT SHUN TOPIC, so comprehension is not needed in my part but yours, why because of your rash assumptions, i've told you what i've been trying to say over and over, so if you still can't get it, you deal with it.

 

Very good points creed. If you think some characters are hard maybe you need to PRACTICE a little or alot depending on who it is. I play Aoi and have got to be a Subjagator so that means i have an above 79% win rating. Nothing is impossible in this game besiads killing somebody with 1 move as some scrub claimed he could do a while ago. and nice spyish end to your post creed. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

 

I have a Akira at High King,a Lion at Dragonlord,a Vanessa at thunderlord,a Kage at Battlelord and a Jacky at Hero. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif /versus/images/icons/smirk.gif

 

Wow that a little off the current topic ie. Lau_fists bashing. Even though that was the original topic.

 

Let me tell you something, Wall, that is tee-total bullshit about using Shun to get 80% 10th Dan in Kumite

I'm not trying to say I'm some VF God here but it's really not that hard.

Shun is EXTREMELY difficult to use

That's your opinion about Shun's difficulty but Shun IS NOT HARD TO USE but yes he is hard to win with when playing a REAL PERSON of any skill

you're going to find the mind-numbingly boring cheeze-filled method to use Shun to win

That assumption is wrong I would use mind-numbingly boring cheeze-filled methods with ALL CHARACTERS if needed.

which will probably mean doing, say, d/f P, P, K and falling down over and over, or maybe d/b KK over and over and over, since the comp is too stupid to defend these moves

Erm not really, loose too many drink points that way, I might of used up all my free + throws /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

I've played just one human

hmmmm

This cat is a game designer and does this stuff for a living, and if he was serious about it he'd KILL me in VF, at least initially

Being a game designer doesn't mean your good at games.

Before VF, I never played a video game or had interest. Just didn't occur to me. I don't have gamer extincts

You know what (I'm really trying hard not to sound like an l33t asshole but) maybe that's the reason why Kumite is giving you such a hard time,...........maybe. On the other hand I HAVE BEEN playing games for a while and lots of different games too so maybe I might find it just a liiittle tad easier, just a tiiiiny bit, just a thought.

I Don't argue the merits of human play to someone who prefers it. But also leave all that juvenile "boring" talk. If you can't appreciate Kumite as it can be applied to your gameplay, then you aren't appreciating the depth of VF, the ability to learn a martial art with your thumbs

actually I'm quite good at thumb wrestling. Jokes aside now you say I'm not appreciating the depth of VF hahaahahaahahaah that has to be the biggest load of crap i've heard from someone that has never met me. If I don't appreciate the depth of VF then I wouldn't of spent most likely thousands of pounds on VF arcade, consoles, joysticks, mooks and travel to play VF since VF1, If I don't appreciate the depth of VF I wouldn't of spent years of my life dedicated to this stupid game, If I don't appreciate the depth of VF then I wouldn't have met my good friends sorry let me rephrase that my brothers, and if I don't appreciate the depth of VF then I wouldn't be here writing this very post and you wouldn't be reading it right now /versus/images/icons/smile.gif but I really do appreciate the depth of VF and Kumite is as much fun as paying bills and taxes.

If you weren't so bored with your character, and moved on to someone new, maybe Kumite wouldn't seem so mundane. At least until your tried and true cheese shone through and enabled you to win, which is more important than learning, obviously

I'm bored of Kumite not my character's if Ryu from Street Fighter became available it still would be boring it's not as if the cpu will compensate for me doing fireballs on their ass. You know what I did learn something from Kumite the other day before I broke my ps2, that is I really really need to go to Japan and play VF VS not Kumite. Kumite is trying to copy VS play but it's not nearly as good.

Optimus Prime: One shall stand, one shall fall.
Megatron: Why throw away your life so recklessly?
Optimus Prime: That's a question you should ask yourself, Megatron.

 

Lau_fists, let me first say that getting 90% or above in Kumite is not a big thing to do. Look at my signature in the bottom. And before you say anything, no i did not use cheap methods or the same moves over and over again. You wanna know why guys like me and Death Raven are able to do this. Its because we've been playing this game since the beggining. Yes, I even bought the ill fated Sega Saturn, just for VF and VF2. You cannot appreciate this because you said yourself that you've never been big into fighting games until VF4. And yes, I totally agree with Death Raven about the computer being as dumb as a rock. Dont believe me? Just choose Vanessa, go into Muy Thai stance and just press+ + and do this over and over until you win the fight. At times i just wanted to scream at the computer DUCK STUPID!! But the computer always blocks it and becomes staggered. And I do avoid this when fighting the computer. because it is cheap. I DO think that Kumite mode can be an enjoyable experience, but I think that Versus mode is 1000X better. To bad there is literally NOBODY that I can play with in North Carolina. Not to mention that finding an arcade that even carries VF4 can be an arduous task. I tried playing my brother, but i beat him too bad and he vows never to play with me again. Oh well, it looks like im stuck with Kumite, so i have to try and think that its not so bad. If Virtua Fighter ever releases Net Play in a later game, then i would be a very happy man.

 

Before Lua_fists goes into a frenzy and sends flames up your ass he said that its impossible to get a 80%-90% win rating with the more intricate characters like Shun and Aoi. Besides the obviously flawed viewpoint of his he didn’t mention anything about characters like Jacky,Lau or say Kage because they are all very combo friendly. While Shun and Aoi are more difficult to use and require the opponent to guess what your next move is which the comp doesn’t do. It would be obviously harder for Shun and Aoi to raise ranks in kumite because of their less combo friendly and unorthodox styles, but not at all impossible to do without as he put it "cheese".

 

Maybe I should have mentioned that it is the same for me with Shun as well. Although I much rather prefer playing combo characters like Lau and Jacky. Just more my style thing i guess. Anyway ive experimented with Vanessa and Lion as well and ive got ratios of over 90% with them as well. Then again, this is kumite mode so i doubt anyone here really gives a damn. Jeez I wish there were some hardcore VF'ers that attend NC State.

 

I'd like know what games lau_fists have designed.

 

<font color="33oocc">. I tried playing my brother, but i beat him too bad and he vows never to play with me again.</font color><font color="3333ff"> <font color="orange"> Shinz </font color> has over the past coupla yrs helped his brother develop into a force to be respected anywhere from the Korean VF Clubs to the arcades of Japan. </font color> <font color="33ffcc"> I suggest you take him into training mode and allow him to practice good juggles, hit throw and either RO or Wall combo stuff against you and then set arcade to <font color="pink"> very easy </font color> and coach him through to Doral. Here in NYC we have several experienced VF players that have been playing since VF1 and they too, just like a real Karate Sensei, have coached their comp to play better. Once he gets a few excellents against you and the CPU his enthusiasm may remain strong long enough for him to learn and grow into formidable competition. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif </font color>

 

You know nycat, there is nothing that I would love more than to do that for my brother. But, he was never really big into fighting games in the first place. I tried to help him get better in the game and to train him, so to speak. But he's just not interested i guess. I only blame myself though, i should have thrown a couple of matches to bolster his self-esteem. Who knows, one day he might get interested again. The good news is that of all the fighting games that he HAS played, he likes VF4 the best!

 

explain to him that you have a new combo to show him with his favorite character that slams oppo into wall or RO with impunity. Let him win 90% of time until he begins to grasp the fundamentals and then allow him to exercise his new prowess with crumples and juggles. gg /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

hmmm, that may work . Im just afraid that he doesnt even care anymore. You know any moves like what you just describes for Wolf, its his favorite character.