New Mariners: Question/Answer Thread

Both of these were already discussed in either the Jeffry 101 thread (HCF combos are in the combo portion) and/or FS Threat Stance thread (in regards to the threat stuff).

While it is true if slap is blocked immediately inputting an attack P:_) will stuff attacks, the issue comes from throwing out a 1 damage, slow, linear high with shit range. And the guessing game attached to this is poor. + is slightly better.

Whereas some characters have actual guard-breaks that are either hit-throws (60-70 damage) or guaranteed combo starters (within neutral stance or within a better designed stance).

And HCF is a great oki attack, with the ability to change up the timing, but once the opponent learns to step it, the recovery frames are a fun thing for them to play around with.

 

"Ad hominem argumentation shows everybody how brilliant and valid your opinion is."
- Tamonash En Welle, Eve online forums.

 

It wasn't attack... if someone had played Jeffry for a long time, they too would see how horribly nerfed he was (whereas every other character has something noteworthy in their arsenal).

This is an attack: what a worthless bump of a thread.

 

He may have been nerfed from R to FS, but he's still not the worst character like you originally said.

 

He is the WORST character. Someone has to be, and it's Jeff easily

 

If it isn't Jeffry, then who?

 

Eileen and Blaze are pretty bad, right?

 

As I wait for the game to get re-downloaded, and for this hectic weekend to pass, I will ask you to explain why that is. Make an argument, prove your thesis. It shouldn't be hard as you do have all (or most of) the resources available to you, like the "character ranking" thread in the arcade section, youtube, the frame data, and the game's decent dojo mode.

Now get to explaining how Blaze (and later edited in Eileen) are worse than Jeffry.

 

Actually I don't really care to argue with you anymore, but Blaze has no advantage on hit and is only about delay strings and setups.

Eileen is just silly and does no damage to heavyweights, or maybe even to Akira weights.

I think that'll do now. See you.

 

What an incredibly lazy cop out, you aren't even arguing. You say X, provide no evidence, and then say "fuck it."

What you say about Blaze is so incredibly vague it can apply to pretty much all the cast, but probably describes Jeffry the best. I sure would like a high attack sabaki that leads to a free knee class launcher, a great throw game, worthwhile "setups," catch throws, hitbox shenanigans (RD, HCF, , +, + , etc.), decent elbow class punishment, 17 frame full circular (Eileen too), arguably better low throws, great pokes with great delayability (for example +), simple and functional stances, + in general, a sweep, options (good ones) from backturned (that you can actually go into by choice), and I could go on.

Eileen is "silly?" You know what character wins a lot of tournaments? Check out that aforementioned thread. Eileen is low tier not because she is a weak (or the weakest, like you think), she has a fuckton of options that can be gone into after huge portion of her movelist. The reason why most people have difficulty with her is because using the right move at the right time is an art form.

Play more characters.

 

Damn right he does, jeffry even wins tournaments in japan. Hell the 3rd best rank japan player (at the time) was a jeffry player. A star jeffry player. So its highly possible to smash face with jeffry.

 

I guess a few corrections to that post could be in order. Regarding "16f ciruclars in both directions that do good damage" which was supposed to be 4P and K, but 4P is actually 17f and it kind of doesn't really do any special mentionable damage, and CH hitchecking it into Threat is probably impossible actually. The K series on the other hand do good damage because against most characters KP leads into a juggle with Threat and against the rest KPP is hitcheckable and does a good chunk and leads into decent oki. Regarding K+G, it really actually is pretty slow at 26f while most other characters have a full circ high kick at around 21-24f, but Jeff's makes up for it in having the highest damage out of all similar moves in the game at a whopping 67 on CH, which is shared with the Threat version while it's "only" 20f.

All of the mentioned Threat stuff are valid though, and I still think Jeff has things going on pretty good for a low tier character. 2K into Splash being guaranteed on CH and doing 50% from a safe, 17f mid which is +2 on hit and has a delayable followup for mindgames is almost unbelivable for a supposed shitty character.

 

Of course / are good because it is all Jeffry's got against an opponent that knows about EDCG. +/+/ are great attacks up until that fact.

And of course Jeffry has things going on pretty good for a low tier character, he has tools, he can win, and he often does (depending on the player). But every single other character doesn't have things going for them, they MANY THINGS going for them.

Yeah, is great, but,
1.///+/+/+///+/, i.e. mid attacks that have hit-boxes would be great too, especially when playing against characters like Akira, Aoi, Eileen, Blaze, etc....
2. Or a good low like, I dunno, old + or a half-circular like +. Combo starting, decent damage, mid/high evading, half/full circular, good frames on hit... any of these would be a plus (as most characters have these)
3. A good circular like Evo/FT's or even R's + and beefed up HCF(an update to Vanilla's ), or even + that puts the opponent in side-turned.
4. A strong throw game without the need of a wall
5. Stronger punishment, I mean, in vanilla did 37 damage back when there was 201 health. FT's + would be a huge boost.
6. A better stance, like FT/Vanilla or R threat, with some built in evasion, fewer active frames, etc.
7. A guard breaking attack/catch throw in a (good) stance neutral
8. An attack versus lows like R's +
9. Actually be fat enough to avoid damage
10. WTF-speed combo Starter, like CH
11. Better reach. A lot of shit avoid Jeffry's mids in Vanilla, but his reach was also better, like /. His reach was reduced and everyone given more evasive attacks.
etc.

Jeffry, outside of early R versions was never top tier, but he had most all of these tools since at least Evo/FT. While all other characters kept most of the great tools they had and got lots of good shit in addition to it, Jeffry was striped bare. And yes it is getting repetitive, he can win, he has tools, this is VF after all. But if you play everyone, you'll learn they have holes in their play, but not as numerous and glaring as Jeff's. And yes, you can say I am living in the past, and things weren't all that great for Jeff in general, but in FS it seems intentional that they want Jeff to be the worst character, and they were successful. is great, but it cannot make up for shit design.
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Also a side note since I haven't been active at all since last year, it is nice someone added + ++ combo for Jeffry, but it also works with a 1 frame delay against Wolf in open... or closed, can't remember and can't test (no longer a console owner).