New To Pai (And VF), Many Questions!

Kind of a quiet forum, hope there are still some of you around willing to help out a fellow Pai! By way of introduction, this is what I just wrote in another thread:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Hey what's up guys, brand new member here. I'm a Pai player, I've played ~400 ranked games and have a slightly winning record, but that's only because of the number of weak players that join my games. Against competent opposition I am still a big dog but I'm trying hard to learn all the nuances of the game instead of being just another spammy scrub. I've got a long way to go though and still fall into the trap of relying on certain moves far too often. I've got loads of questions which I hope you'll help me with because I am dedicated to improving my game. I never thought I liked fighting games until I played VF5 but the beauty of the fight engine has captured my attention like no other game of this generation.

I'll just throw out a few questions to start with and hopefully as I keep playing I can come back to this thread with more questions for you. I really appreciate any help you guys can give me in understanding this fascinatingly complex game.</div></div>

I've actually got tons of Pai specific questions. If anyone wants to help me out by playing some Pai on Pai that would be really great - or you could just answer these for me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif


When I play other Pai's online I usually do pretty well because they are usually very predictable and rely on a few moves over and over again. I know I fall into that habit too a lot of the time, relying on 1_kk, 66k+g, 66kp etc. Any tips on how to mix up my Pai game to avoid being predictable?

Does MeiShouHo Stance have any useful purpose?

Do you use many xP+K reversals online or does lag make them too unreliable?

Am I correct in thinking that any high strike can be reversed by BOTH 4p+k and 6p+k or do some strikes require 4 and others 6? If you can use either which is generally a better option? (Same question for mid strikes?)

At the start of a round are there certain characters that can always hit first who Pai should usually guard/evade/7k/etc against?

How do I know when a 8p or 8k+g down attack is guaranteed? I cause myself all kinds of trouble attempting these attacks. I also have trouble with 3p because my opponent usually ends up too far away - am I just not quick enough at dashing in for the 3p?

 

First question- Learn more of Pai's move list she more than just her flips and 1kk etc those moves will get you killed against a good foe that knows to counter them. I also recommend doing to dojo and just practice doing these other moves against a good foe just to get used to doing them alot that way you feel comfortable doing them instead of just resorting to the 1kk or her flip kicks.

second question- That stance is good for mix ups it goes into her bokutai stance (P,P), She has a combo off of it (K+G,P,K), or you can just use her back turned attacks right after the stance as well more mix ups. It even avoids some attacks because pai backs away slightly as part of the move.

third question- It depends on the player you are up against. Being able to read the enemy is vital here are some good ideas to use reversals that might save you live as you get up from being knocked down to avoid mids or etc as the enemy see you get up, at the start of the round if you know people will attack a certain way and make a habit of doing it alot. Reversal are still quite reliable since lag in most online games isn't that bad overall.

forth question- 4 or 6 P+K reverses highs either way the effect you want is based on which direction you choose. 4P+K only puts the enemy down and that is it. 6P+K not only catches the attack it also staggers the enemy as well so you can possibly get extra attacks in if you want. The same goes for mids as well. It won't catch horizontals, double handed attacks, drop kick related kicks, flip attacks or cartwheel based attacks be careful for those attacks if you see them coming.

5th question- It depends on the other character completely, some good moves to do starting off could be things like her normal reversals, 64P (it sabaki's high or mids punches and elbows), 1P (pops ups on contact and avoids many attacks before it hits as well because pai rears back slightly before it hits). these are just a few good ideas you should watch and see how the enemy starts the match that should determine how you start the match overall.

Last question- If the enemy slams into a wall and falls to the ground they won't be able to recover right away any down attack is guaranteed after that. I don't think Pai has a guaranteed down attack after any of her moves (please correct me if I am wrong)

Also don't forget to use the 8 or 2P+K if you see them roll away alot as well it discourages tech rollers and side steppers that try to get away from attacks that way.

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif have a bigger window of opportunity than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, so they're more likely to work. Downside is you need to follow up on them in order to do much damage.

 

66P+K is a good move that can keep your opponent guessing what's next. 66P+K4 puts you in Bokatai(SP) and you can really follow it up with mix ups. You can either catch you're enemy with a juggling move in P+K out of the stance or you can sweep with just K. If you 66P+K4~K,P you'll have a rising move that deflects on coming attacks most of the time also.

Also for a good mix ups with Pai, you should learn how to use her back against and turning moves.

 

Thanks so much guys this is really helpful.

I remember a funny series of matches against Templario's Kage where every time I floored him I went for the 8p and every single time he popped up and threw me up in the air for big combo damage. I quickly recognised that this was a bad idea but it was so ingrained into my brain to down-attack after a knock down that I couldn't stop myself doing it over and over again. At least I learned a lesson that night and now I down attack much less often, but I still miss far too many. Does this mean against good players I should abandon down attacks altogether unless they hit the wall, or do I just need to be even more selective about when to use it?

 

I think without using a wall, the only moves that give pai a free heavy ground attack (8p or 8k+g) are /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif counter hit and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif counter hit. But in both of these cases there are better juggle options that a measly heavy ground attack.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is a very interesting move that should not be overlooked. It has evasive properties, hits mid, and can be charged. If fully charged, it causes stagger on block. On counter hit (or even hit during recovery) it causes a stomach crumple. In some cases, this can lead to over 100 pts of damage!
CH/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, lp rebounce, WS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
or even
CH/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, lp rebounce, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

Also, don't neglect the yip kick /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. It closes distance, and makes for a great mix-up starter. Pai probably has hundreds of flow-charts that start with this move.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is important too. Experiment with the mix-ups from this. It has fantastic dodge properties, and is the basis for much of Pai's close-up game.

One more thing, her MSH stance is great, but it must be used somewhat sparingly. I like to use it after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as a little mix-up dodge mind game kinda thing. Also works great if you're almost out of range for your opponents wake up kick. Start the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif string as they are getting up. It seems to catch a lot of people evading or attacking.

PS. ONE MORE THING! Don't use pai's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif string EVER. Its just too punishable and too easy to block. Try /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif if you need to have a sweep in a combo. Just don't do the last /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif all the time.

 

a move I find not used enough that I abuse is her standing K it happens to be her fastest popup move and pops up on a normal hit as well. It is my favorite punisher for whiffed attacks. The one down side to it is that it is high attack but if one mixes up their attacks well it gets people off guard all the time. I catch all kinds of good people with it all the time and no pai I see uses it at all. The second beatdown kick is good to keep people honest once in a while as well. It should be a part of any good pai's games but I don't see it done enough.

Try to mix her standing K in as well to get many pop ups in without having to use 26P all the time especially if they expect you to do that as well