New to VF - which fighter should I start with?

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Her reversals aren't that helpful.

Her YY stance however is really good.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Defense is in the player, not the character.

Aois reversals are helpful but in a different way that most beginners think. They force opponent to play standard nitaku mixup situations against her differently, but they arent the basis of her defense. Risk in trying them is too great for you to rely on them, but they can counter an otherwise uncounterable attack. Sidestepping, fuzzy guard, throwescapes and tenchi stance are more important than reversals. And three out of four of those apply universally across all characters. Whenever I do reversals myself, they are pretty much always for flash, not for need.

Ability to rise up from the ground with reversal-throwescapes in a wakeup situation has its uses, but you can live without.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

I guess I should've worded that different, or been more in depth with my statement. I was asking which fighters are better suited for defensive play. I do need to educate myself on the terms " Sidestepping, fuzzy guard, throwescapes and tenchi stance", but from my understanding of other fighting games, some characters are used more effectively under certain styles of play.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Imho DS vane is even better in that department - she can be played effectively without ever having to be put in a disadvantage greater than -6.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

goh.va.aoi.wolf

imo

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Pick the fighter with the martial art you like. All the characters are great.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Kinda have the same problem too. Still trying to find a character that fits me. For example, I usually liked to lockdown opponents in the corner and/or go for ring-outs very often if the game had the option to do so. I was also good at dodging things so I was sorta hard to hit.

I been screwing around with Eileen, you think she would be right for me or someone else based on what I wrote? I like fast characters they're usually my first choice. Of course I can control even the slowest character if they have what I'm looking for.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

I'm thinking about picking up vf5 again. The character I want to play is Akira but I don't think my execution and knowledge is good enough to play him. So I'd like a suggestion for a character that I can play as a substitute for Akira, until I nail my execution better and understand the game properly.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Akira will increase you execution inordinately. I think what you want is a fun char to get into VF. Someone like Blaze/Lion/Eileen(?) should be a fun mess about char.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

I haven't touched this series since VF 2 (played the series on and off afterwards) and so coming back to this game seems so off lol.. I played street fighter for the longest time but now it's starting to bore me so I've moved back to the 3D realm.

As you can see by my name I grew on Lei Fei a lot because of his shaolin style, but after picking up VF5 I think I may main Eileen and stick it out with her despite the negative comments surrounding her abilities.

Her Kou Ken (monkey stance) still reminds me of the shaolin style kung fu so using her is fun and I love her speed, not only through her movements but through her attacks as well.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Hey. Looking to get into vf and I'm looking for a character... for my dad. I use Kage, when I first tried vf4 out I tried Akira, didn't like him. My dad likes to fight virtually like he did in reality as a younger man, which is basically just plow forward offensively and dominate. In a virtual world, he likes to find something that works and abuse it. If he get's an opening, he rushes it hard if He knows how, and he likes ease of use and move execution. Basically I'm looking for a VF4 (that's what I have right now) rushdown character that can just attack attack attack and has a few quick, damaging, abuse-able tricks. Also not too terribly slow. For some reason I'm thinking of Hawk or Akira. Akira more or less because he's kind of spartan with his one hit wonder damage moves and counter moves and Hawk.. I don't know why him lol, he's one of those big powerhouse characters that he likes so much, and last time I played him in 4 (years ago) I think he used him and McWild. Still, any suggestions?

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

The thing about Virtua Fighter is you get what you think you're going to get out of a character. This is a much different animal than Tekken or Street Fighter. For instance, if you pick Wolf, you are going to get a big guy who does a lot of damage with powerful hits. If you pick Pai, her hits won't be as powerful but she will be much faster and will combo more than Wolf.

This game is unique in that every fighter is truly unique. Ken and Ryu are different enough now but they still have many of the same moves. In Virtua Fighter, every character has their own set of moves that sets them apart from anyone else in the game. No one is similar. There are no palatte swaps. Lei Fei is completely different from, say, Lau. Jacky is different than Lion. That's what makes Virtua Fighter so unique.

Also, it can take years to master one character in the game. There are that many moves! my advice is to play through the Arcade Mode a few times and see who fits you better. Then, hit the Dojo hard and beef up your skills in Quest Mode.

This is a fighting game that takes patience and time. But it's well worth the effort. Almost no other fighter comes close to the depth of Virtua Fighter. I can only think of one that might be neck and neck with it and that's Street Fighter III: 4rd Strike.

Take your time deciding a character. Play around with all of them and get a general feel for the game. Then, pick the one that you gravitate toward and train up. When you feel like you're good to go, unleash hell!

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Not true...There are not many people who have really taken the time to master that specific skill but, if you get to know all of the fighters and their moves then a lot of matches can be won by reversing....

Especially with Aoi...other characters can't reverse all attack types but she can. For example, Pai and Akira are also good with reversing, but they lack the ability to reverse two handed attacks...which means against Jeffry who uses two handed attacks regularly, going for reversals with Pai and Akira would be all bad...but Aoi would be effective because she can reverse two handed attacks along with all others...

Again, knowing your fighter and the opponent's fighter are key...

Akira would be perfect against Brad, because most of the attacks that Brad will rely on can be reversed by Akira as well as Pai and Vanessa...

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

I think you overestimate the usefulness of the reversals.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

I think it is you who have underestimated their usefulness because you don't quite understand them...trust me...lol...they are very useful...I don't know where I would be without them...

I can explain in further detail if you want...I may get a lot raised eyebrows for saying this...but I believe that 50% of Aoi's defense depends on using her reversals...at least for me anyway...that's how it's been...

Akira is another one...reversals can usually give me an edge over many characters while in close quarters by using them...even though attempting them at close range is much more risky...

Pai is my other main character...I use her reversals a little less than the other two because of her many attacking options, speed and ability to zone with long range kicks...But there are many of times I get wins because a lot of hers cause stagger and allow for extra hits after...I have even gotten quite a few ring outs by using them...

Remember everyone has different play styles and just because a certain play style doesn't work for you, doesn't mean that it won't work for others as well...Timing, knowledge, experience and practice can make them more useful than you could ever imagine...

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

I'm just saying that reversals are generally a bad idea, they have their uses but they are hardly a solid foundation on which to build your defence.

I understand them just fine. I've used more than a few reversals in my time. I have also, however, fought against people who overestimate their usefullness.

All it takes is for someone to slow their game down, even the tiniest bit and you can and well get hurt for trying them too often.

VF is pretty open ended regarding playstyles but there is no arguing with something that is a niche defence. Reversals are all well and good but their usage is largely pointless given that they leave you so open and rarely reap a decent reward when compared to other defensive abilities.

Good times to use a reversal would be at the end of a canned string that ends with a safe move. Bad times would be...just about everywhere else.

I'd be interested to play you if you are online to show you exactly what I mean but my Xbox is dead and I'm not even sure if you have Xbox Live.

Regardless, the way you are speaking reminds me of masterpo. Not sure how long you've been playing but if I had to guess I'd wager not very long at all.

I hope you stick around because if you get more active in the community I'm sure you'll grow to see what I mean when you start playing against better opponents.

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

I agree, building a defense around reversals would be suicide, LOL...You would be pretty much asking for trouble.

However there is no defensive measure that is an answer to all situations. Blocking and evading are also good defensive tactics but if anyone thinks that they can rely on either as an only form of defending oneself in a fight, they would be dead wrong.

My point was not to say that reversals are a 'say all, end all", but that they can be another defensive tactic that can be used while being attacked or when dealing with an overly aggressive opponent. And the fact that they are pretty much the only form of defense that Guarantees damage if connected, cannot be overlooked...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand them just fine. I've used more than a few reversals in my time. I have also, however, fought against people who overestimate their usefullness.</div></div>

I did not mean that you do not understand them at all...if you have any kind of experience (which I assume you do), then I would suspect that you at least know something about them. I was mostly saying that lack of understanding of all the ways they can be used in battle will obviously limit someone's use of them.

Most players throw them out there from time to time, hoping to score some lucky damage. If you watch most good fights, they are usually done at random and not during many good opportunities that can make them effective...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All it takes is for someone to slow their game down, even the tiniest bit and you can and well get hurt for trying them too often.</div></div>

Of course!! You are right again. If they are spammed then yes, your opponent will either begin to delay their attacks or go for throws.

The best way to get around them doing that is to mix it up. I never said spam them and become predictable....they work pretty much like any other move or tactic in fighting, if you begin to spam them, your opponent will eventually catch on.

But if that is what makes them not so useful, then NO any ONE attack or defensive measure is all that useful because they can all be spammed and done in excess....If you can show me any move or tactic that can work over and over again then I will stop playing VF5 today, because then that would be a poorly made game..lol..



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VF is pretty open ended regarding playstyles but there is no arguing with something that is a niche defence. Reversals are all well and good but their usage is largely pointless given that they leave you so open and rarely reap a decent reward when compared to other defensive abilities.</div></div>

Aoi's reversals do 40 damage...two of them in a round equals up to be more than any of wolf's powerful throws...I would hardly call that a minimum reward, but I guess we all see things differently..lol...

Yes, they do leave you open and if you get hit while performing one it will count as a counter hit. To be honest, they carry more risk than they actually give out reward.

Especially against Wolf or Jeffry...trust me, I have been there. Just when you think a strike is coming they go for a throw that does huge damage and ends the round...But I have also ended the round when they have gone for strikes that have been reversed....

Oh well...you know the old saying...can't win em' all..lol..gotta lose at some point...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good times to use a reversal would be at the end of a canned string that ends with a safe move. Bad times would be...just about everywhere else.</div></div>

The best time to use them is when you can see your opponent's attacking pattern...which is never a problem for me...I have a 6th and 7th sense of knowing what my opponent will do next after about 20 seconds of playing with them...I'll start to pick up on which attacks they favor...the human mind can only be random up to a certain point because...By nature we have preferences, once you can begin to see what they are...then you can begin to act on them..

The way I see it...the name of the game is attacking....with that being said an opponent will have to strike you at some point...especially when out of throw range...bottom line...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be interested to play you if you are online to show you exactly what I mean but my Xbox is dead and I'm not even sure if you have Xbox Live.</div></div>

I don't have an Xbox at the moment, but my Xbox live name is Brenbed...I'm about to get another one soon and will be back online within a month...so send me an invite...and we will have a few battles and then, tell me if you still view them the same way...You will probably win...because from the way it looks you have more experience in all other areas...but I won't be an easy win...That I can promise...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless, the way you are speaking reminds me of masterpo. Not sure how long you've been playing but if I had to guess I'd wager not very long at all.</div></div>

If you wager that, then I would say that you would be a few bucks richer. Your right, I have not been playing that long. I am new to VF, I was previously a Tekken man. But when I saw the mechanics in VF, I had to make the switch,lol...so much better.

But just because I am new doesn't mean I am a push over, hahaha...I can hold my own...I have played some pretty good people and I have won and lost my fair share...so when I speak I do speak from a trial and error stand point...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope you stick around because if you get more active in the community I'm sure you'll grow to see what I mean when you start playing against better opponents.</div></div>

I am here for the long haul my friend...I won't be going anywhere...I will be around until the next VF6 or Final showdown comes HOME...even if I have to make a trip to sega myself...and talk to them..lmao...

I can't say that I have played the best players in the world...but I have played good people and have had great success using the reversal...so much that I won't play with many characters that don't have them...lol...They have been my corner stone...Like I said...I am speaking from experience..Not just from practicing against the CPU or in the Dojo...

I actually wrote out some ways to be more effective using reversals on another thread....I don't feel like writing it all again...so I will copy and paste it...so you can see what I mean...and that will better explain what I am saying...

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Another player on another thread was asking about them so I thought I would share a few tips on how to be more productive when using them...as you can see that my advice is to improve other areas as well...and to mix reversals into one's overall fighting strategy...But I would never tell anyone to rely on them...that would be bad advice on my part....hehehe...And I'm not the kind of guy who likes to give bad advice....

This should explain what I mean...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Usually (almost always, even at high level play) an Opponent will have an attacking pattern. This means that they will favor certain attacks. The good thing about Aoi is that she can reverse all attack types, which isn't the case with any other fighter in the game.

With that being said, let me give you a few pointers on how to use her reversals.

1.) They should never be spammed!! - I can't stress this enough. No matter how predictable your opponent is, if you start spamming them, then you become even more predictable and at that point they will start expecting you to reverse their attacks and when you do, they may either begin to delay their attacks or go for throws. And remember, if you are hit while performing a reversal, it counts as a counter hit.


2.) Spacing is important!! - Let's face it, reversals are risky and the closer you are to your opponent, the more risk you take. Usually when an opponent is out of throw range, striking becomes their best option. This is when Aoi's reversals begin to shine. Because if you have good timing and a good idea of which attacks they usually use when they are advancing, then you can reverse their attacks when they attempt to close the distance and attack you at the same time.

But always try to minimize your use of reversals when your opponent is close enough to throw you. Unless they have become very predictable and you know for certain, that they will counter strike you after they have blocked your attack.
But if you are uncertain and do not know whether or not they will strike or throw, then it's best to save using her reversals when outside of throw range.


3.) Improve your overall defense!! - Reversals are a great way to use your opponent's aggressive actions against them, BUT, they are not a 'say all, end all'. Improving defensive skills in other areas will give you more options, which will allow you to mix things up and not become too predictable. Reversals should be used to catch your opponent unaware, and if you have mastered other skills that allow you to defend with Aoi then you won't always rely on reversals to get you out of tight situations. So when you do finally decide to use them, your opponent will be caught off guard at that moment.


4.) Offense is Key!! - I know at first glance, having a decent offense would seem to have nothing to do with reversals, but again, it is all about the mix up game. When you sit back and only defend, you don't put your opponent under any pressure. It makes it easy for them to sit back and find openings to attack, because since you are not attacking all that much, that's all your opponent will have time to think about.

But when they are under pressure you can cause them to make more mistakes...sometimes pressure can even cause your opponent to act recklessly. If you learn to put them under pressure then you give their mind more to think about, which can make them act quicker without having time to think about other mundane things such as your surprise reversals ;-)


Let me say that I live by the reversal. I have ended plenty of matches using reversals against people who I know were better at VF5 than I am. But they have also been my downfall at times when I have used them in excess. So I speak from both sides when I say that being good at reversals is a rare talent and you will not see many fighters who have mastered the art of using them at high level play....but the few that have....are powerful forces to be reckoned with....

In fact some of Aoi's reversals can set up her ground grapples for even more damage, which can sometimes end the round before an opponent can even recover...

They take tons of practice. Timing is very strict when it comes to a competitive battle. It also takes knowing the individual fighters because They all have different moves that are performed at different speeds which can throw you off.

So I'll end it with this...THE DOJO IS YOUR BEST FRIEND...You will need to spend a lot of time sparring with different fighters to learn the timing of their moves...

Do that and apply the lessons above and even the best players will think twice before attacking you

~Peace~</div></div>

 

Re: Why is picking a character so hard rant

Is this true? I never knew this.

This is true. All it takes is for your opponant to delay a string or start mixing up attack levels with throws and your reversals become effectivly nullified. If you guess right you get 40 dmg, guess wrong and you could be thrown for 40-60, launched for 80... There is not a single top Japanese player who has a defence based around reversals. In fact in most matches you'll usually be lucky to see 1 during the entire match.