new to VF4

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by capercat, Oct 8, 2001.

  1. capercat

    capercat Well-Known Member

    hello ... i'm new to VF4, though i used to play VF2 a bit, for the last while i've been a tekken player but am being drawn more and more to take up VF. i'm from around toronto, ontario btw ... anyways any advice on how to approach learning the game?
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Everyone has a crouch dash, so you might approach a VF character as you would a Mishima. Also, in Tekken, it's made out such that a good "mix up" is considered something VF, everyone has good mix ups (i.e. there's less poking and more precision).
  3. capercat

    capercat Well-Known Member

    rrr, mishimas (i'm a ling player btw) ... but yes i've seen the crouch dashing in VF4 vids ... but its use didn't seem similar, i.e in tekken its a matter of wavedash in, and then simply guess between throw, sweep, mid hit. i'm guessing that the role of the CD in VF is a bit more than that.
    thats an interesting comparison also about mix-ups ... actually what really struck me about VF play is that when two characters stand in close range in t4 its a rather dull affair, you get two TTT players who panic cause they can't backdash ... whereas in VF it seems like there is more thought going on there.
  4. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Erm, Jeff, the motions for crouch dashing in Tekken are very different and really nothing like VF crouch dashing. However, from a gameplay perspective, the two are somewhat similar, I guess - use crouch dashing to mix it up.
    Really, crouch dashing in VF is especially used for modifying moves that come from a crouch.

    Capercat - where are you from exactly? There are many VFers in Toronto.


    <font color=white>Llanfair</font color=white>
    <font color=orange>Booyah daddy mac! I'm stylin!</font color=orange>
  5. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Erm, Llanfair, duh.

    And there are many more uses for a CD than just getting modified crouch attacks out.
  6. capercat

    capercat Well-Known Member

    i'm actually from the suburbs, mississauga. I've been told toronto used to have a lot of good VF players ... i'm hoping they will all be playing 4 when it comes here.
    could someone explain modifying moves that come from a crouch (FC moves, right...) ?
  7. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Yup, Tekken has the same concept with CD modifying WS moves.
  8. MADrox

    MADrox Well-Known Member

    To all you VETS

    just curious BTW,
    are you guys willing and patient enough to want to teach these new players.. (Of course the ones that show interest)
    I've noticed a good number of newbies getting bored playing against eachother, but then a few of those find more interest after seeing shota/myself and other vets play. They then ask questions and it does seem fun to kind of give tidbits to these fresh minds.
    So you guys up for it???


  9. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    Re: To all you VETS

    Hell yeah!

    I carry GLC's move list and Mr Bungle's combo list every time I'm at the arcade and I'm either approached by new people to read it (in between matches) or I offer it to people. Then I tell them to check out to obtain their own version of the lists, and also to read up on everything else.

    So far, every new guy I've met on VF4, and there's been quite a few, have shown great interest in continuing with the game. And it's the same story here as I've heard about in other arcades.. the two tekken 4 machines in the same arcade as vf4 are gathering dust.

    I couldn't be any happier :)
  10. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: To all you VETS

    Actually, on this topic... I was chatting with Akira and Don on Saturday, and we noticed that there was a fairly sizeable crowd of observers around the VF4test machine at SVGL. Some of them were Tekken players who didn't like T4, I think. But they never really dared to put down their tokens to play with our group... except maybe once or twice, and then they get killed quick (even if we give them rounds).

    The problem is that there's just one VF4 machine at SVGL, and hardcore VFers all around the Bay Area congregate at that machine. Many of these guys have played since VF1. And I think it's somewhat daunting for a new player to try out VF4 when the regulars are there all the time. Personally, I'd be happy to give pointers to new players. But only if they ask for tips and are genuinely interested; I don't want to be giving unwanted advice or comments that might irritate the other player.

  11. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    The explanation of the difference in the motions for a crouch dash between Tekken and VF was not intended for you, Jeff. It was aimed at those who are new, like capercat, who might get the impression from your post that crouch dashing in VF is just like a mishima in Tekken. It was, imo, rather confusing and a poor analogy.

    And, of course there are more uses for CDing than modification. I said "especially", not "exclusively". Movement with crouch dashes - like Taiwan Step in VF2 and KStep in VF3 - was driven by the ability to modify moves. If there were none, the techniques would have been far less developed are used rarely. And you can see that they are used rarely for characters that have virtually no moves that come from a crouch. It's far more effective to Taiwan Step with Akira than it is with Lion in VF2, for example. Same thing goes for VF3, you don't encounter a whole lot of effective Kages Kstepping, but the technique is deadly with Lau. Modification is what you could call the most beneficial fruit of crouch dashing.


    <font color=white>Llanfair</font color=white>
    <font color=orange>Booyah daddy mac! I'm stylin!</font color=orange>
  12. capercat

    capercat Well-Known Member

    yet another question at the risk of sounding stupid as i learn VF:
    when you say modification, you mean that in effect you can add a dashing motion to a FC move, since you are considered crouching during the dash ... just clarifying.
    hmm. i have read the VF4 general FAQ .. but can anyone recommend a resource where i can learn about the various steps you discuss?
    oh and speaking as someone taking up the game, i would be very grateful if, as i lose embrassingly to skilled players, they would help me out. i'm guessing that if a new player shows genuine interest, it will be noticed, as opposed to say, muttering 'i'd kill you all at tekken tag!' ...
  13. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Your question is far from stupid - modification of moves is something that even many many veteran VF players have a hard time doing well.

    Modification allows you to have FC moves executed virtually from a standing position. Your character is only in crouching position for a very short time. Example being Akira's double palm: *b,f+P (* indicates from crouch). If you want to connect a double palm against a floating opponent, you would enter df,DF,b,f+P. Akira crouch dashes (only briefly) before executing a double palm. If it's done well, the double palm should look like it was executed from a standing position. This was more apparent in VF2 because the crouch dash made your character instantly assume a crouching position (crouching, by holding down, itself took 20 frames - first 10 frames = standing, last 10 frames = crouching). VF3 was a not as forgiving and the time it took for a character to assume a crouching position from a crouch dash was 10 frames. I have no idea of the frame stats are for VF4.

    To use a Tekken example, Kazuya's FC, 2 can be modified - perhaps you've seen good tekken players make it look like the move came out very quickly from a standing position.


    <font color=white>Llanfair</font color=white>
    <font color=orange>Booyah daddy mac! I'm stylin!</font color=orange>
  14. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    OK, I gotcha, sorry about that. I thought you thought I was an idiot or something, heh heh.
  15. capercat

    capercat Well-Known Member

    interesting ... thanks for the info. in tekken it's referred to as iWS for instant while standing .. players use the crouch dash or whiff low parries to achieve a similar effect. another final question is i havent seen much mention of how moves recover; are there moves that recover in a crouching position?
  16. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    another final question is i havent seen much mention of how moves recover; are there moves that recover in a crouching position?

    Yep. Most moves recover standing, but some moves like Akira's b,df+P and Kage's df+P recover in a crouch, so you can immediately follow up with a FC,f+P (Single Palm) or FC, f+K (Knee) respectively.

  17. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Well, you've done a pretty good job convincing me and others of that...

    If the VF4 TFT combos list gets on VFDC, will you stall several weeks to upload while saying that you're going to test every single combo for stance and damage stat perfection, like you did with the VF3 list I transcribed?

    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
  18. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, what's the connection?
  19. GLC

    GLC Well-Known Member

    speaking of moves that recover in crouch

    Anyone cares to put up a bigger list?

    <font color=orange>You now speak to GLC.</font color=orange>
  20. Prodigal Son

    Prodigal Son New Member

    Hi I wanted to reply to what Llanfair was saying about the move "modification".

    I have been a hardcore Tekken player for the past 4 years or so (I was "Chinky-Eye" on all Tekken forums), which really pisses me off since Namco screwed us all with a lousy 4th edition to the series. Anyways....

    What you are referring to by move modification is similar to Tekken's instant "while standing" motion. The motion in Tekken is d,df, neutral which cancelled the crouching motion so quickly that it wasn't apparent at all. It was especially useful for characters such as Ogres and Mishimas who had powerful "while standing" moves (moves executed while standing up from a crouch). Is what you're referring to, actually the OPPOSITE of this? Is it that you can execute crouched moves from a standing position so quickly that the character doesn't appear to duck at all?

    The example that you gave with Akira....are all characters able to execute this tactic in the same way?

    This leads into another question I have regarding the VF crouch dash (CD). Does the crouch dash execute FROM a fully crouched position? I've seen some vids where the characters shuffle back and forth from a crouch at high this CDing in VF? If it is, then it's very different from a Tekken CD. Anyways, what I am wondering is if this "movement modification" can be used to cancel into CDing from a standing position? Of course, this only applies if CD originates from a crouch, and it's only useful if the CD is a main source of offense and defense like it is in Tekken.

    I hope I'm not being confusing....I'm actually from the same crew of Tekken players as Capercat and we're both equally clueless on VF. But we're both fully willing to learn anything that you can divulge.

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