new to VF4

Let me get your CDing question. In VF2 and VF4, you can CD from both a standing and crouching position. In VF3 it was not possible to CD from a crouch. The "shuffling CD" that you saw are basically CDs canceling into one another...think wave dashing without having to cancel into a forward dash to link one CD with another.

 

Your question is far from stupid - modification of moves is something that even many many veteran VF players have a hard time doing well.

Like me ;> but I've also spent my VF life perfecting characters that don't have an abundance of from crouching attacks. (Sarah&Jacky) IMO, if you're just starting to pick up VF, it would be best to learn the system overall-- learn the right response to different situations such as what's the best way to get up or the opposite, how to successfully attack grounded players. Learn what your best options are after successfully blocking an opponents attack, etc.

OTOH, if you're dead set on learning and perfecting Akira or Lau, you'll have to learn how to crouch dash reliably...

Modification allows you to have FC moves executed virtually from a standing position. Your character is only in crouching position for a very short time

Modification in general means forcing your character to switch from standing to crouching OR from crouching to standing as quickly as possible by buffering in the crouch dash or standing dash. When we say "modified" on this board we usually mean the crouch dash was buffered in. But in T-step or K-step, you actually use the movement of the crouch dash to get around the ring.

I emphasize the modified-standing part above as there are some attacks that can only be performed while standing like Jacky's low back fist. The low back fist recovers in a crouching position. So to do repeated low backfists, or a low back fist after a sweep, you would enter in f,f,d/b+p after the first low back fist or sweep.

 

As far as my experimentations go, Crouch Dashes take on different sets of properties throughout the VF games (no idea about VF1).

I am no expert at VF2... but as far as I knew, you could Crouch Dash while ducking or standing. You could crouch dash backwards or forwards. And the crouch dashes could cancel each other (was Taiwan Step just bouncing the backwards and forward crouch dashes, one after another?). As far as I know, modifying moves plays a stronger role in VF2 than in VF3 (but still important in VF3). Especially with Akira and Lau (and many others I assume). Anyways, a VF2 expert wanna talk about the VF2 crouch dashes and their game effects? Also, I believe crouch dashing was a bug in VF2. I could be very wrong.

In VF3, crouch dashing seems (to me) to only be possible from a standing position. Crouch Dashes seem like they were built into VF3 on purpose, but severely limited compared to VF2. You can only crouch dash forwards. However, DB from open stance is somewhat of a crouch dash backwards (with almost none of the advantages of a CD). Crouch dashes were definitely important for modified moves as well in VF3. Probably one of the cute things about the Crouch Dash in VF3 was that it seems to be the only thing that can TRULY cancel a dodge (but a special dodge could cancel the recovery on a normal dodge in VF3tb--vice versa in VF3ob; not to mention dodge attacks). Crouch Dashes could also cancel dashes. Using this knowledge, you could create various sequences of movement (which I stress needs to be used carefully if you are going to use it at all in a serious match). Buffering Crouch Dashes is something that seems to have its own various rules and situations though.... I mean, out of a dodge, it was easy as hell to do a crouch dash, as it was for some other situations. But it's hard to buffer a very fast crouch dash out of some animations (afaik) such as Kage's Ten Foot Toss (making the TFT-->knee combos as difficult as they are).

In VF4, Crouch Dashes can now be done back and forth. As far as I know, they can be done from standing or crouching. And they are VERY EASY to do compared to VF3.

The nice general trait about the crouch dash is that you are IMMEDIATELY crouching once the inputs are done properly. Your character may look like he's dashing and then in a crouch.... but by toying with the modified moves, you realize you can do them practically at an instant by quickly doing a crouch dash followed by the input for the modified move. Basically making such moves as Akira's palms, Lau and Pai's heelkicks, Shun's lunging fist, Lion's standing uppercut, and many other moves performed almost immediately from standing.

Hope that made sense to you/versus/images/icons/smile.gif

-Chanchai

 

VF2: You can perform multiple crouch dashes, forwards and backwards, from standing or crouching position.

VF3: You can crouch dash forward from a standing position. You cannot initiate a forward crouch dash from a crouching position, nor can you cancel a crouch dash into a crouch dash (i.e. no multiple crouch dashes). You cannot crouch dash backwards, whether from a standing or crouching position.

VF4: You can perform multiple crouch dashes forward, from standing or crouching position. You can crouch dash backwards from a standing or crouching position, but you cannot crouch dash backwards multiple times (there is a refractory period).

 

Wha...? Not at the same speed as multiple forward crouch dashes, though?

 

Oops. You're right, you can multiple crouch dash backwards at the same speed in VF4.

 

hmm, with all this discussion just from a few newbie questions i think i'm gonna like VF4 ..

hey chinky-eye ... when you think about it what they are talking about is like iWS... in tekken we do d,d/f or some other command that basically hold down just enough for the character to count as crouching, but quick enough that they dont appear to crouch. from what i have gathered, in VF entering a crouch by holding down takes some time, yet a quick d/f,d/f from standing position followed by the move allows you to execuste FC moves ... i.e the CD allows you to enter crouch fast, then the CD is quickly cancelled into the FC move. so it is almost the same thing. i think.

 

Just wanted to say

that this forum rocks. Tons of informative replies....thanks all!

BTW, if I'm just starting VF, who do you recommend I learn the system with? I'm interested in Lion or Akira, but I hear they're tough to use even for seasoned VFers. Actually the only problem I have with VF is that the characters appeal less to me overall than Tekken's. But at least Lion, Akira, Jacky, Lei, Aoi, and Shun are cool. So any picks for a starting character?

 

Re: Just wanted to say

I was thinking of pai ... i really like her sway step ... and being a ling player in T4, well i guess its predicteable. she had this move that looks like lings f,f+2,1 and i was sold. also aoi based on some vids i've seen of her. still i'd like to hear thoughts about where to start.

 

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

What you are referring to by move modification is similar to Tekken's instant "while standing" motion. The motion in Tekken is d,df, neutral which cancelled the crouching motion so quickly that it wasn't apparent at all. It was especially useful for characters such as Ogres and Mishimas who had powerful "while standing" moves (moves executed while standing up from a crouch). Is what you're referring to, actually the OPPOSITE of this? Is it that you can execute crouched moves from a standing position so quickly that the character doesn't appear to duck at all?

<hr></blockquote>

VF doesn't have any 'while standing' moves like Tekken - it does however have moves which require you to be in a crouching position in order to execute the move. Prodigal Son, you've got it right - modification allows your character to execute 'from crouch' moves fast enough that you won't see the crouching motion. It's not the opposite of the iWS technique, it's analogous to it. I think we're on the same lines here.

You also mention multiple crouch dashing - and Ice-9's described it well below. What your seeing in the vids are people cancelling one crouch dash into another. In Tekken, you need to insert a forward dash in between crouch dashes, to get wave stepping.

Now, I've yet to play VF4 but the way this multiple crouch dashing worked in VF2 was that the CDs were actually cancelled with the guard button and as you were holding down guard, you would buffer in another CD motion and then release guard. This allowed for extreme fine tuning of movement.

Question for Myke (or anyone who has played VF4), can you cancel your crouch dash with guard or must you cancel a CD with another CD to get multiple CDing in VF4? And you and I must discuss the mechanics of our beloved m-DbPm

cheers,

<font color=white>Llanfair</font color=white>
<font color=orange>Booyah daddy mac! I'm stylin!</font color=orange>

 

Re: Just wanted to say

Akira is difficult for newbies but Lion is very simple. Stick to his few trusted moves and you will be okay. There are NO complicated stuff to learn.
d/f K
d P, -> d/f P,P OR f P
d k,
f P,
u k,
throws...

Basically go and watch chibita's movies at feixaq site and you will see that every newbie can do the moves he does (perhaps not with that kind of reflexes but the moves are not tough to do)

Basically, I think the most impt thing to know is to learn the speed of the character and punish whiffed/blocked moves with maximum effect. Learn how to do the most damaging throw consistently.

 

VF doesn't have any 'while standing' moves like Tekken

au contraire monsieur! What about Lau's heelkick, performed by pressing K while standing?

Pai's too.

 

and the dbpm, since it requires a return to neutral prior to entering b,f+P.


/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>

 

and the dbpm, since it requires a return to neutral prior to entering b,f+P.

It does? I sometimes do db,DB,b,f+P without returning to neutral between DB and b, and it seems to work fine for me...

 

Jesus, Jeff... you're so sensitive... I swear sometimes that you must be girl.


kbcat

 

Jesus, Graham... you're such a busybody... I swear sometimes that you must be girl.

/versus/images/icons/smile.gif x 500

Now seriously, why would you want to post something like that unless it was to get me into a more foul mood? Midterms, papers and interviews are annoying enough as they are.

 

I think you must be hitting neutral without realizing it, or else it changed in VF4. The return to neutral is the reason dbpm's are such a terror to pull of on a pad.


/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>