news on VF4

Well, Myke, I'm sure they'll do other things. /images/icons/wink.gif

Facial expressions are one thing, but it leaves me wanting and half pissed off that the only new feature Yu decided to attribute to VF4 was something so insignificant to VF system. If you think about it, facial expressions are going to be missed outside of actual gameplay, and probably only noticed during win poses and the like.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

VF3 had some pretty shitty stages, even worse than the pre-VF3 demo stages, I believe. VF4 should spark up some original ones. Stages like the subway, grand halls and etc have been much to overused.

 

Uhm...the subway stage is actually one of my favorites. In either case, I don't recall any previous fighting games having a stage in a subway station. But my memory is extremely poor nowadays.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

To Ice-9

Well, the subway?

Subway
Fighting Vipers (Jane's stage)
A SUBWAY STATION!!!
Last Bronx (Yoko's stage)
A SUBWAY STATION!!!
Some KOF Version, some weirdo male character
A SUBWAY STATION!!!
Crazier ones include airports which have been overused...

Great Halls (A la Akira, Lion...?
Many in Soul Calibur... Ivy's sucks, Taki's shitty but Voldo's nice...

Great Wall
VF2 Lion.. That's all.

Construction Site
Fighting Vipers (Raxel's stage)
Glass Floor, Windows
Fighting Vipers (Grace's stage)
Pseudo-idea of cs.
And probably most of it in FV2.

Castle, Kage's one.
Hey, SC has the most of those Japan Shogunate ones.

Roof
Quite some number of roofs out there, though not slanted.
Anyway, I've never seen a roof like that b4.

Desert
No one's copied it, its too plain...

Island
Some originality at last! But the square shape's weird... perhaps a round one like Taka's will be better.

Raft
Nuff said... Shun's VF2 and all the watery stages of SC...

Aoi’s Brook
I really have a grouse for this one. I rank Aoi's stage as top! The demo version one that is. It looked more natural... no fences, just a snowy area within a rock valley, with waterfalls in the distant end flowing into a brook with a rock out of ring area.
The present one sucks... too artificial and pukey.

Taka
Pretty original, but seems dead-endish. Let's say VF continues for two more versions... VF4 and 5 (perhaps 6?). Is Taka gonna have a sumo ring all the way?

Dural

Mix and match... the desert, subway and raft stage are pretty cool.

Cave Stage
Rather new too.

********************************************************************************

Now, I don’t criticise without givin’ suggestions. Here are some of my suggestions for stages in VF4. Below, I don’t use rings. I think VF’ll be better if huge arenas were used, with blockages, obstructions and deadly ring outs.

Akira
Now, we all know that his dojo is the most used, so let’s make more rings in VF4 less undulating. Akira’s always been in his dojo… one in his Budokan and the other one in Hangzhou (I read that up in the VF Comic version). Remember the picture of him practising in the forest? The one outside the dojo? Let’s set aside a clearing for some ring or too. Walls may not seem too good but I like the idea. A flat ring.

Pai
VF3 Pai had a sucky stage, sucky voice and sucky expressions. What happened to her ye olde Chinese glamour, her sharp raspy voice (more adultish than her pre-pubescent voice on her Yappara kufuus and Juunen taunts) and her Faye Wong face (Faye Wong’s a HK Singer who is pretty popular in Asia, something like a Asian Madonna… just like Coco Lee is Asia’s Mariah Carey? A bit of SC here, but anyone remembers the jetty-like reaching-out-to-the-middle-of-the-lake-bridgey thing that was featured on the CG portraits with her and her father practising (she looks like Chun Li…heh heh.)? If you think it sucks than use the training ground outside her residence (also in the CG)… If all else fails, just use a temple…or shrine.

Lau
No…definitely not in his diner…nor the kitchen. I think the mountain stage… featured in the CG History movie… will be pretty good. Real good. If you don’t like falling three light years down then we can use a wooden viewing pier surrounded by a valley, with a waterfall. Sounds confusing? Play Sonic Adventure and go to Mystic Ruins. Go to the waterfall area and picture the stage.

Wolf
A wrestling ring. After all, they recreated Inoba’s wrestling ring on the PSX (the game’s Ehrgeiz) perfectly. Now’s our turn. Inoba had a bitmapped background, and WWF Attitude has a lousy arena. Make the ring smashing by adding the participation of people… cheering and shouting. That’s the missing factor in some VF stages, especially Pai’s. I’ve never seen HK that deserted before. And any of you notice the Zhen Shu Gong Si (Hedgehog Company) signs all over the place? An what about Nam Chiu Cosmetic Pharmacy… sounds like Sega’s pitting fun at Nam…co.

Jeffry
I have no idea. Just a beachy area… maybe an underwater stage with dolphins frolicking around. A fishing boat or kelong (an attap house at sea… read on Singapore) could be good.

Kage
Same goes for him… perhaps an underground cavern surrounded by water? Some sort of dojo for him.

Sarah
I once said earlier… Sarah has lost her image. All the mystery is gone. Plus that disgusting voice in VF3 replacing her sensuous pre-VF3 voices, everything shatters. I think that we should have something in the night… plus her mysterious bgmusic and voice… it could prove great… perhaps something like the SC stages of the two Koreans/Mongolians Hwang and Seung Mina. London or Paris would be nice.

Jacky
Anything jerky… perhaps some seedy alley… London would be nice. Maybe the Crown of the Statue of Liberty? Yeah I know I’m mad.

Shun
No more rafts! Perhaps his courtyard would be fine. Otherwise, use another raft… more like VF2’s please. VF3 was disgusting/

Lion
Anything French… big grape vineyards, ancient French architecture, the snooty chi-chi upclass streets or the top of the Eiffel Tower. Anything French… the library was cool but not showing of his French culture. And let him speak French… same goes for all the characters. Let ‘em speak their native tongues. Lau’s "Shuugyoga taringua" will become "Ni de xiu lian hai bu gou ne!" (sounds classier, but I don’t think Chiba Shigeru speaks Chinese) and Pai’s "Anata niwa kufuu ga tarinai wa" will turn into "Ni de gong fu hai bu gou ne!" (sounds yucky).

Aoi
Her patio… my fave brook (the natural one)…anything Japanese. Please keep her kimono… everyone’s after it. SC’s Mitsurugi, Street Fighter Ex Hokuto among others have plagiarised her outfit. Hooray!

Taka
A much better sumo ring… with all the audiences and gang… you know… like an official sumo tournament.

Dural
The idea of combining stages is wonderful… but I didn’t like ending up with the Twilight Sumo ring all the time. I just realised that the 1st person to play the game… to reach Dural… will get the sumo ring. The rest follow in some order… Lion’s, Shun’s, Akira’s or something like that. But for once, I would like a fixed stage. What about outer space on a planet? Gravity could be an important factor! As for you guys getting sick of Dural… let’s give her crystal. Or maybe, we can have this. You know how the same characters fight each other (Shun vs Shun. Kage vs Kage) and you’ll say… this ain’t real! Why not have Dural flow (liq. metal) into the ring and take form of the 2nd costume player… as the boss. We have gotten rid of Dural… yet we have kept realism.

New Characters
Let’s have someone from India or Africa or the Middle East (Siba)? These places have so many people, yet no fighters? Maybe S. America?

Modes to include in the Home Version
<ul>
[*]Arcade
[*]Ranking
[*]Survival
[*]Time Attack
[*]Teambattle (a la VF3tb)
[*]Teambattle (a la VF2 PC)
[*]Portrait (CG pictures>
[*]Playback (recording good matches down)
[*]Multiplayer modes for VS and TB (a la VF2PC)
[*]Options (a la VF2 PC… choosing stage, ring size… lots of em please)
[*]Mission Mode (like SC)>
[/list]


Any comments? Please state ‘em.

 

Re: news on VF4 - Jeffery

Hmm..maybe for Jeffery he should have a fight in a Greek Colosieum. This would be indicitive of his style.
-Shadowdean

 

No disrispect Ice but the game is not out yet! To be frank 2nd and 3rd generation games may push the envelope for the DC. Plus the rumor is that there is a upgrade chip for the DC, the ever evolving DC...So you and the others are just speculating on what it could be, but not what it will be...A good game reagardless...Plus Sega and Yu better do a good job noting as good a job as Namco did with Soul Caliber, and I know SC does not have what you are talking about as far as backgrounds and textures, but graphically it spanks VF3tb...So there is room for improvement!

--M. Wong--

 

SC, visually, looks leaps better than VF3tb, but in fact, technically, it is not that big of a gap. SC's stages and backgrounds are geometrically simple--there are not that many curved surfaces. Even DOA2, despite its multiple stage levels, have geometrically simple environments.

The vision I have for VF4, and I suspect Yu Suzuki share this vision, is much more grand, detailed, lush, and organic.

And there's one last but critical thing many people forget...in terms of a hardware that can generate 1 million pps...we are past the first generation. Daytona USA 2 is clearly 2nd generation Model 3 Step 2 (if not already 3rd generation). There are many opinions that Naomi is not as powerful as Model 3 Step 2.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Great post, but please sign off your messages so I know whom I am talking to! (Or get an account ya lazy bum! /images/icons/wink.gif)

Subway
Fighting Vipers (Jane's stage)
A SUBWAY STATION!!!
Last Bronx (Yoko's stage)
A SUBWAY STATION!!!
Some KOF Version, some weirdo male character
A SUBWAY STATION!!!
Crazier ones include airports which have been overused...

Toldya my memory sucks...but anyway...surely the 2D versions don't count...and I the FV and Last Bronx subway stations were poorly implemented...but anyway.

You compared a lot of the VF3 stages to SC, but ya know that SC came after VF3 right? So, it's more like SC that's copying VF3.

Anyway, as for stage ideas in VF4...hmmm....off the top of my head?

- More stages with people, onlookers, and basically just some form of LIFE!

- There's too many "environment-type" stages in VF3...I want to see more stages in every day urban surroundings. On that thought, I can just see a stage in a dark alley where there's dirty puddles everywhere. When a character gets knocked into the puddle, the clothes get soaked and muddy. Heh heh, major style points for that!

- I thought the bridge prototype they had for VF3 was pretty cool (maybe they didn't go with it since they couldn't render it to their satisfaction)...I wouldn't mind seeing it realized in VF4.

- I've always wanted a stage where there's actually grass...but it seems as though PS2's TTT beat VF4 to it! Still, I wouldn't mind a stage where there's tall weeds/grass/bamboo shoots...you know, the kind where it stands up to your waist. If AM2 can make the entire field polygonal...with plants swaying as two opponents fight....man! That would be sweet.

- How about a match on TOP of a speeding train?!? Getting R.O.ed would be particularly brutal, heh heh. If possible, the train would be running through environments in real time of course...just think of the possibilities...running through tunnels...with flashing lights in some sections...and bursting out in the end, into sunlight where a landscape of the city is rendered in the background. Very, very nice.

- I like the desert stage, but I would like to see elements of Jeffry's stage incorporated into it. What about a desert stage with an oasis? The oasis doesn't have to be very deep...maybe ankle deep or something. That would be quite nice too.

Etc. As you can see...there's no way in hell all the above could be done properly with a mere 3 million pps.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

<img src=http://headline.gamespot.com/news/99_12/13_vg_oni/screenshot9.jpg>

Something like this.

P.S. That's a shot from Onimusha, the Capcom PS2 game. It's supposedly rendered in real time.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

I already have, Ice-9! Its just that I'm too (gush) lazy to log in.

Anyway, in my post, I mentioned that Pai Chan looked like Faye Wong. Well, I've edited a pic, actually 2, on the similarities. The picture chosen wasn't good for comparison, but good for editing... Look at more VF2 Pai and Faye Wong pics and you'll notice a trend...

- the eyebrows... the way they calm and arch.
- the nose and eyebrows.

etc etc...

at this site...

http://www.angelfire.com/nj/BiruVF/images/paicom.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/nj/BiruVF/images/paicom2.jpg

I still prefer anonymous...

 

So basically what you are saying Ice is that VF4 can not be ported to the DC keeping in mind with Yu's vision. Then that is pretty stupid of SEGA! Unless they plan to make games for other consoles, or other alternatives? Regarless of the fact you speculate too much...And I'll be @#@$$ if 2nd and 3rd generations games can not push the DC's power any further...What of PS and the N64 their games have improved inmensly as developers tap into each console's power...Are you telling me that, this has been done with the DC? Do you make games for consoles? Further more SC graphics simple...Are you high on crack! SC has to be the best all around fighting to date...Period! If there is another do tell and if you are talking PS2's games that is a year away...and people better have HDTVs or a PC monitors to see any differences graphically. I ain't no console basher but you and your speculations have taken it's toll. SEGA better have a plan to port VF4 to the DC to keep it's owners happy...If turns out to be a not to date version like VF3tb they can keep it! Then I guess Namco has come into SEGA's backyard and showed them how it is done. Fear no evil, see no evil!!!

--M. Wong--

 

So basically what you are saying Ice is that VF4 can not be ported to the DC keeping in mind with Yu's vision.

Eh, I never said that. What I did say was that, according to the vision that *I* have for VF4, the Naomi and DC are incapable of rendering that vision. I know this because what I want is FMV quality graphics depicting lush, detailed, and organic environments in real time.

Can Dreamcast do it? I doubt it. Like I stated before, we are on the second/third generation of Model 3 graphics, and nothing comes close to what I have in mind.

Then that is pretty stupid of SEGA!

Why? VF3 arcade makes a lot more money for Sega than VF3tb Dreamcast does. I don't see why VF4 couldn't be the same...assuming that Japan's economy is on the upswing, as most analysts are saying.

Unless they plan to make games for other consoles, or other alternatives? Regarless of the fact you speculate too much...

Pretty much nothing is known about VF4. Henceforth, this whole thread is speculatory...as is my comments, as is your comments in response to mine. But you seem to be missing the point--the purpose of this thread IS to speculate about VF4.

And I'll be @#@$$ if 2nd and 3rd generations games can not push the DC's power any further...What of PS and the N64 their games have improved inmensly as developers tap into each console's power...

Well, compare Tekken 1 to Tekken 3. Improved? Of course. But is it a generational leap? Heck no. Compare VF2 to VF1. Then compare VF3 to VF2. Now try to keep the difference in visual clarity in mind and try to imagine a VF4. The Dreamcast is essentially equivalent to Model 3 and Naomi--if VF4 appears on a Naomi, the franchise has essentially remained on the same generation of hardware. Do you think you can get that sort of a leap (VF1 -> VF2, VF2 -> VF3) on the same hardware?

Further more SC graphics simple...Are you high on crack!

I'm going to assume that "Are you high on crack!" is a form of expression...otherwise that would be classified a personal attack and would normally be edited out. You can also interpret that as an implied warning to watch your tone.

But, to address your point, no, I never said SC's graphics are simple. I stated that the geometry in the environments are simple. There is a big difference. Think about it. And if you need help, think "flat grounds", "2D bitmaps".

SC has to be the best all around fighting to date...Period!

What has that got to do with the discussion? Oh, I get it, it's the "best all around fighting to date", so that's why it has the bestest graphics right?

If there is another do tell and if you are talking PS2's games that is a year away...and people better have HDTVs or a PC monitors to see any differences graphically. . .I ain't no console basher but you and your speculations have taken it's toll.

Ha ha, does anyone see the humor and irony inherent in the above excerpt?

M. Wong, I am a Sega fan, but I am not delusional. And the topic is not about the PS2, I'm afraid, but whether or not the Dreamcast/Naomi can render our vision, hopes, and dreams of what VF4 could be like faithfully.

SEGA better have a plan to port VF4 to the DC to keep it's owners happy...If turns out to be a not to date version like VF3tb they can keep it! Then I guess Namco has come into SEGA's backyard and showed them how it is done. Fear no evil, see no evil!!!

The only thing I fear is you, Mighty Wong...

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Anonymous, your links are broken!

ice-9 | Sennin

 

As best as I can make out from reading this thread, ice-9 and I have pretty much the same vision of what we would like to see VF4 look like (graphically speaking). I have to agree that based on what I've seen so far, the DC can't bring that to fruition (although I will have a better idea after Shenmue actually debuts). But I think Sega has said enough times that the DC has an open architecture that is meant to be expandable. There are even rumors already that a new chip has been developed that can somehow be added to the DC to improve its power to the PS2 (and alleged Dolphin) level, or beyond. So I can see them making a next generation VF4 that is a leap beyond Naomi, but that could be ported to an "expanded" DC. Again, this is speculation, but not beyond reasonableness. As for the arcade VF3tb producing more money than the DC VF3tb version, that's at least partly due to poor DC sales in Japan. That could change (after Shenmue and the release of good RPG's), making the possibility of a more profitable DC VF4 more likely. Also, and this is still just me extrapolating and guessing, I still think the primary focus of VF4 will be online play, perhaps even with connectability to arcaders. This is based on the recently published statements from SOJ describing the future direction of Sega. So although I have the same approximate hopes as ice-9 does concerning VF4 graphics, I am much more optimistic that we will indeed be able to play it at home on some version of the DC, and within the relatively near future. Time will tell. "Don't fear, VF4 will soon be here."
imashroom

 

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I still think the primary focus of VF4 will be online play

<hr></blockquote>

Oh yeah - can you imagine VF4 being a fighting game equivalent to Quake 3 Arena? Bunches of VF servers with challengers and human opponents eager for competition. Wow. I can dream.

cheers,

<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>

 

Errrrr, NONE of us really know how DOA2 stages are, we have not played one, or even seen an entire stage in the game. I would only assume they aer more technically advanced.

 

Well, I've read several impressions and downloaded six or seven movie clips of the game (one of them was especially helpful as it showcased several stages). So, I do have a fairly good idea. Also, I think it should be noted that there have been many complaints that although the stages are big and multi-tiered, most of stages are actually quite bland in terms of detail. I've heard many informed opinions (from those that have played the game) that SC still looks better than DOA2, at least aesthetically.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Hi, I'm Anonymous. Sorry, the address is

http://www.angelfire.com/nj/BiruVF/paicom.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/nj/BiruVF/paicom2.jpg

<font color=orange>Better run home to Mama now! Ohohohohoho...</font color=orange>

 

Actually, yeah, some of us do. There is a DOA2 machine in Chicago, and from talking to Ed(hgamer) and Shota, they both swear by it as awesome.

 

You are funny Ice...And yes (High on crack) is an expression. SC is not the best game just because of the graphics, but what it has in the package...Missions, Art Cards, Commands, you said it yourself it is a deep game...Should I go on...They may not be much to you, but it sure does have more to offer than VF3tb, Oh!, but wait it's about the Yomi, you're right, Sorry!. Hum!...Maybe you really are biased towards SEGA's VF series. Further more you want to ban me, ban me...You have a certain arrogance about yourself and how good you are...Such as when I ask for help with Shun...But hey you are the so called expert and you needs to put in my place for generalizing about help that I need...What a crock!

As far as VF3 making more money in the arcades...Well since consoles are selling like hot pancakes where does the money lie. Yes they did get more money out of the arcades back then, but the future is in the consoles...Kids, grownups they are more willing to play at home than to go to the arcade...So if SEGA and you don't see this...Well ENTER SONY...The end as we know it! [And if you think this is just an opinion...Well how does 60+ million of PS sold world wide...Does that sound like arcades can make more money?]

Hear no evil, see no evil...Again an expression, but taking it to another level...I knew this would open a can of worms...How dare I even speaketh a word to the ALL KNOWING ICE-9. Be sarcastic all you want, and warn me all you want...I tell it like it is, and you tell it like it might be...You've been critized before about how tight your community is and not allowing other new players to come in and be a part of it...Take all this how you want. Being that said PEACE!

--M. Wong--