No VF for xbox?

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

it was am2's first project on the ps2. It was also a port from the arcade meaning that there were restrictions. If it was a home system only original project, it would probably be different. But then again, each and every game just turns out to be based on opinion if the game was properly programmed or not. I don't believe any of us can program close to what those guys can. So we don't really know if a certain system is easy to program or hard. Just basing it on how the games comes out and interviews by the programmers itself.

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

" and Nintendo, while making ace games, always was satiesfied with the status quo ond only reacted and never innovated after the Gameboy."

Hmm.. I don't know. Nintendo was the first one who had an analog stick standard for it's games. It was the first to feature the rumble pak. Now every system has it built in. It was the first one to have a game that played well with cgi graphics (donkey kong country), thier in house created super mario kart and look how many copy cats of cart racing games where there? Only one was close to being as fun as Mario kart. So they did some innovation after the gameboy.

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

the problem relys more on the ps2 texture methods than on am2's credabilty with its port. the ps2 has been known to have problems with this area, and now they are rectifying it with new texture compression tricks{which can also be done on other consoles if they wanted to impliment it}.Gt3 is a racing game and like all other racing games,its main focus is on speed and the controll mechanics of the car. most of the graphical effects are going into the car while the background is less detailed and mostly flat. on the other hand, vf4 have very detailed enviroments that are up close to the viewers eyes.it also has characters that are also very much detailed with lots of animation in their moves, clothing, and some of its background. vf4 is more taxing to the ps2 than gt3.I do believe if vf4 was made from ps2's hardware,it would have looked better but some of its texturing would have to be toned down.

 

xbox & no vf4

since this topic is about vf4 and xbox, I belive a xbox version
should be made. It would be arcade perfect{or better if they
pull a soul calibur] and it would allow those who have not purchased
a vf4 to buy one. from the xtra's they added,it would be best
represented on the xbox console especialy since it allows
you to go on line and up load high scores and other internet
features. if the game was released on ps2, less than half would purchase
this version, which would cause sega to lose money. if ported to the xbox,
it will sell to those xbox users, probably sell systems which
was stated before and from its gains, they can produce more
games for the ps2 and xbox.
do any of you guys think sega maybe making vf5 on xbox?
the xbox is a very controversal system but it is 2-4 times more
powerfull than ps2. if it came out, the xbox would probably be 150$ or
cheaper[more affordable to those who have another system}.
well anyways like i said, xbox should get a version and there
wouldn"t be any complaints about it being downgraded because
of hardware limitations

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

THere are quite a bit of crappy textures in the PS2 port of VF4, yet DOA3 has none, texture wise it's beyond critisism, is this because Temco is above and beyond the programming skills of AM2, well I don't think so, must be the hardware it's on eh?

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

Seriously, I think TECMO have better graphic programmers than AM2 have

Just look at DOA2 on DC, and then look at AM2 fighters on DC (Virtua Fighter 3, Fighting Vipers 2)
TECMO seemed to be able to squeeze more out of DC than AM2 did

On PS2, Namco did a very good job with Tekken 4 (graphic wise)
Good texture, FSAA, Progressive Scan Output
VF4 has none of these...made me doubt in AM2's graphic programming skills than PS2 hardware

Maybe, they're just not familiar with the hardware
Hopefully their next project will be more polished

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

Not their abilities -- time & hardware constraints...defintily. Look at VF4 arcade compared to Tekken 4 at the arcade -- no comparison... well, one like PSX vs. X-box... not that bad, but the difference is definitely there.

While I agree VF3 isn't that hot on DC, it was a first gen game, and I'm sure they were spread thin working on Shenmue ---which was the best looking game on the market for ages, IMHO. FV2-- okay, that's pretty bad. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

The FV2 DC conversion was done by an outside programming team, as was VF3. (Scarab and Genki, respectively. Genki certainly learned how to batter harness the system's power in their later efforts, though!)
And I can assure you that the original Model 3 step 2 FV2 is far more impressive, graphically, than the DC port. I could get into specifics here but it would be long and boring. (^^
As for AM2 not being able to squeeze enough out of the DC... one word: Shenmue.

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

Wasn't the conversion of FV2 made far before it was actually released?
I was told that FV2's conversion was already finished soon after VF3 was released.
I don't know if it's true, but it would explain why FV2 on DC was bad taking in account the date it was released on.

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Seriously, I think TECMO have better graphic programmers than AM2 have

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Just look at DOA2 on DC

[/ QUOTE ]

DOA2 was developed on the Naomi board. The conversion to the Dreamcast was a simple straight port Like Tekken4 is to its Arcade cousin.

VF3tb was not only converted from different hardware (the Model3) but it was handled by a 3rd party under time constraints (Dreamcast's launch in Japan). Compare VF3tb to Soul Calibur, Namco took the time to rework the game engine to suit the DC and it turned out great. Moving parts of clothing and finer details which were cut from the DC conversion of VF3tb could be seen in every part of Soul Calibur when it arrived. It always comes down to time.

 

Re:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
VF4 sold some PS2s VF4E won't sell more PS2s, but it could sell Xboxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

PS2 is selling well in Japan with VF4E or not. It would be nice if it could sell more Xboxes, There is only several possibilities if VF4E is on Xbox.

1. It sells Xbox and VF4E sells around 500k again.
2. It sells no more than Xbox user base in Japan which what ? less than 300k ?
3. It sells as well as DOA3 in Japan.
4. AM2 asked MS for compensation for VF4E going exclusive on Xbox. So Yu Suzuki does have money to make Shenmue 3.

Still, AM2 can just keep it to the Arcade, which it made more than enough anyway.

But for perfect port, AM2 ought to consider a high end PC with not yet release Graphic Cards from nVidia or ATI, Xbox would fair better but you would still have short commings.

 

Re:

xbox would be able to do a 99.999% arcade perfect port.
there is no need for a high end pc, when you have a system
like xbox that can push more polygons with special effects
on
than niomi2 can(even with xbox specific features turned
on}.
a better rendition of vf4 ev could be produced on the xbox,
given that they take advantage of their resources.

 

Re:

Xbox only have 2 Vertex Shaders @ 233. While Naomi 2 has that Elan T&L processor. That's really the main difference. 2 Vertex Shader isn't too bad but its just not upto par with the Elan chip. Its more flexible though. If it was 4 Vertex Shaders, than sure, it would have no problem.

Its too bad, that Microsoft is quite cheap, and didn't ask for 4 Vertex Shaders, in Xbox. If MS was as ambitious as Sony was in term of die size of Xbox processor (for its time), they could have done a bit more. They could have contracted IBM for fabrication as well to help nVidia.

Besides that Xbox is quite capable. They can even apply some per pixel lighting with Xbox version, but it would look different though. But with the next generation of graphics card coming from ATI and nVidia, there isn't any match really.

 

Re:

What's the difference between pixel shaders and vertex shaders?

 

Oh please

Ambitious as Sony? With a 4 MEG video buffer, serious aliasing problems, two controller ports, a 100 dollar hard drive add on.

Oh you ment the graphics chip. Where the Xbox can do all those graphic effects for free Sony programmers have to do in software. The Xbox does T/L for free, maybe you can explain how Naomi2 is in ANY way beyond ram (40 megs extra, 8 from sound) better than the Xbox. The nVidia/Intel combo stomps the Naomi2 in every category. You could say the PS2 set-up does the same on paper except for some key hardware effects. Then of course everyone here has the sub-par VF4 port......

And MS had to go with what was hot and feasile AT THE TIME they were making the box, of course NO SYSTEM can mess with the next big boys from ATI and nVidia, consoles have a 4-5 year cycle, nVidia has a SIX MONTH cycle, that's just nonsense talk.

And if you think Sony can create a better GPU than nVidia, expecilly after the Voodoo and Gigapixel buyout's, your mad. All this company does is eat, breathe and shit graphic tech. You see what a piece of shit the sony GPU is.

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

Yeah, I know DOA2 is pretty much a straight port
As it comes out in US very shortly after it came out in Japan Arcade
What I was trying to say was....
<font color="yellow"> "it seems Namco and Tecmo could squeeze more power out of DC than AM2 could" </font color>
If they have problems porting VF3TB to a different but more powerful hardware
what can guarantee they'll be able to port VF4 EVO to X-Box perfectly?
It's different hardware as well

About Genki
I believe they used to be in AM2 (similar to Amusement Vision)
So, they should be pretty familiar with SEGA hardware and AM2 games

About PS2
I think AM2 did have time. They talked about PS2 port even before the game came in Arcade
It shouldn't be too hard for AM2 to do Good Texture, FSAA, Progressive scan output on PS2

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

Why are you people arguing about graphics? It seems like everyone's just repeating themselves. You people bitch about sony's graphics and the Xbox's graphics when no one really gives a flying fuck of what you think. So please everyone just shut up already. Please.

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

its not about the graphics, its about getting the best version of vf4 possible.
for the person who wanted to know the difference betwwen a vertex shader and a pixel shader...

vertex shader's warp,shade and deform surfaces in real time.it also render fabrics, fogs ,and other effects..

pixel shaders turn flat surfaces into textured organic, realistic bumpy sufaces(similar to bump mapping).<font color="blue"> </font color>

 

Re: Let me put it in perspective for you

They're bitching about graphics and that's it, nothing else. Kinda sad actually. But thanks anyway. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif