Not possible to low throw a down punch!

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by cdasher, Nov 3, 2001.

  1. cdasher

    cdasher Member

    I was wondering if a low throw would be able to break down p abusers!(highly not possible!) I think down punch recovers way too fast........ thats why everyone abuses the move! hiazzzzzz! juz a thought!!!!!!
     
  2. Pinkgirl

    Pinkgirl Well-Known Member

    This is the exact question I asked. Please see post titled "Specific Scenario #2" (it's near the bottom of the page).

    Are you the guy who was @ Bugis just now btw? You wore a jacket and looked quite sleepy. Used Wolf and Sarah mainly.
     
  3. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Is a "down punch" anything like a Down's Troll 'Tard?

    For fucks sake, people...low punches are uncounterable, always have been. Why this is a surprise or revelation is beyond me. It's basic goddamn VF - if you had enough time to actually *low throw* someone after blocking a low punch, then you wouldn't be complaining about low punches in the first place at all, or even using them that much.

    STOP WHINING and ADAPT.
     
  4. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Low punch whining.

    It was very possible to low throw a low punch in VF2, and it's possible again in VF4 (where low punches are better than 3, but not as evil as 2).
    To prove it, check out this flick:

    <a target="_blank" href=ftp://vf.dyndns.org/Random%20Recent%20VF%20movies/jeffry_vs_jacky.avi>ftp://vf.dyndns.org/Random%20Recent%20VF%20movies/jeffry_vs_jacky.avi</a>

    There are three requirements.
    1. YOU HAVE TO SEE THE LOW PUNCH COMING. You will never ever ever low throw a low punch on reflex because by the time you recognize it, it's too late to do anything about it. You have to know that your opponent is going to do it ahead of time
    2. You have to NOT block the low punch. The low punch must WHIFF. If you try to low throw a blocked low punch, you will lose because a low punch is uncounterable. If you block it, you are in blockstun too long to punish them. So the trick is to position yourself so that your opponent will low punch from a very short distance... just far enough away that the low punch isn't automatically blocked.
    3. DON'T waste time on dashing forward! Wolf and Jeff have traditionally had long throw ranges and they look even better in VF4. In the movie we see the following sequence:
    Jacky: low punch, puntkick (blocked)
    Jeffry: P (hits)
    Jacky: predictable low punch response. (whiff)
    Jeffry: Triple knee bash. Yaaay!

    Look at the length of one of Jacky's boots. That's about how far away Jeffry's toe was from Jacky's leading foot when he did the throw. There was no need to dash forward.

    Setting up for the low throw: Try an attack which, if blocked, leaves you at that special distance mentioned above. A possible Jeffry example might go like this:
    Jeffry: f,f+P (blocked)
    Opponent: predictable d+P (whiffs... they're ancitipating an uppercut or XPD from jeffry, but instead he just stands there)
    Jeffry: LOW THROW (yay)

    ... there are others but this is the gist of the idea. Try a few of these baits and you will feel the warm glow that comes from flexing your brain and tricking a safe-move-abusing opponent.
     
  5. cdasher

    cdasher Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Thanx Creed.You probably won,t see any player doing that in Singapore..........for now!!!! Eveybody is more keen in learning to abuse the low punch to the max than to really device any counter measurements.Even the best wolf/jeffrey player i know of uses lots of low punches.Thanx for the videolink anyway and btw Pinkgirl, i wasn't at bugis yesterday.Wolf/Sarah.......sleepy eyes.......hmmm...... sounds like Kiat.Then again,heard from a friend that he has exams. It might also be someone else instead so dun really know who u r talking about!!!
     
  6. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    The sleepy one :) is Kiat's friend. dunno his name though. Anyway, didn't you see Kiat low thorw a Low P a couple of times yesterday?? I think Creed is right you have to anticipate the low P to throw it. Recovers too fast to do on reflex I think. Maybe I got slow reflex.
     
  7. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Jacky: low punch, puntkick (blocked)
    Jeffry: P (hits)
    Jacky: predictable low punch response. (whiff)
    Jeffry: Triple knee bash. Yaaay!


    Sounds very much like VF2 days... :)

    I'm surprised to hear that the better Singapore Wolf, Jeff and Aoi players haven't explored this option. Or is it that no one is really using Jeff or Aoi proficiently yet? For anyone curious about other set ups to get the predictable whiffed low punch, I believe the VF2 Jeff guide and maybe the VF2 Wolf guide may offer some insights... at least I remember reading about this tactic in them.

    Is Vanessa's low throw a valid option in the above scenario? It's listed as a catch throw, which indicates greater throw range to me, but it may be too slow to capitalize on the whiffed low punch.

    Pinkgirl:
    Pai does have a low throw, so that might be an option for you too here, but I'm clueless when it comes to efficient follow ups after Pai successfully cartwheels over a croucher in VF4... :meh:

    Hopefully VF4 will show up in NYC and Boston soon and the Pai experts in those cities that are on this forum will be able to comment better on your problems.
     
  8. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    re: cartwheel, pai's ONE efficient followup appears to be double swallow kicks :\ .... suxor. Unless some of the new moves are useful there (f+K,K?)...
    A funny point made by spot the other night on IRC - apparently anyone can low throw during a kuzure down (crumple) animation, and when pai does, she is standing the opponent back up. It's like giving up a guaranteed combo knockdown to do an escapable zero damage throw and try for the same thing :)


    As long as I'm in a typing mood, spot had some other interesting stuff from one of the magazines. Obviously I haven't personally tested any of them, but the gist of them is this.


    1. Tracking . When you GR and then press guard, you stand a good chance of blocking a midlevel attack. BUT! It's better to QR and not press guard. Why? Because (as in previous games) pressing guard aligns you with an opponent who is not facing you. So if they are going to try a predictable midlevel attack, by not holding guard you don't track them and their midlevel will usually whiff. You can now punish from the side.

    2. If you have a choice of moves to hit someone out of kuzure down with, choose ones that leave the opponent facedown. The examples given are pai's SSK and possibly f,f+P,K ... the opponent will go down facefirst, and if they choose to QR, then you can interrupt that QR with a sidekick. What's better, because they were facedown, the sidekick will leave them backturned. Neat stuff. Spot, any corrections or additions?
     
  9. cdasher

    cdasher Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Ok, Didn't know kiat has a friend that also plays wolf/sarah! I wasn't at bugis yesterday : )!!!!!!

    Alan,i dun think your reflexes are any slower than kiat's. I believe that if kiat can punish a low P with low throws, then everyone else could do it too! It's just a matter of time! Personally i haven't seen anyone in S'pore low throw a low P yet..........got to see it myself !

    Does it mean that if one can low throw a low P one can also elbow/stagger the opponent?
     
  10. Pinkgirl

    Pinkgirl Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    Ok, Didn't know kiat has a friend that also plays wolf/sarah! I wasn't at bugis yesterday : )!!!!!!

    <hr></blockquote>

    His friend sometimes plays @ Bedok too. He's always yawning and looks like he's about to drop off to sleep! I wonder how he remains alert during a game... *puzzled* lol /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif And yes, Kiat does have small eyes, but he doesn't look sleepy, and from his gameplay you can tell he's really alert... fast reflexes...
     
  11. Pinkgirl

    Pinkgirl Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    The sleepy one :) is Kiat's friend. dunno his name though. Anyway, didn't you see Kiat low thorw a Low P a couple of times yesterday?? I think Creed is right you have to anticipate the low P to throw it. Recovers too fast to do on reflex I think. Maybe I got slow reflex.

    <hr></blockquote>

    Did he? He low-throwed? That was only after a low sweep (e.g. me with Pai) or Pai's d+kk (e.g. me with Pai again. sigh.). I don't recall him low-throwing after a low punch. Maybe you made a mistake?

    And anyway, I don't see why you're complaining about having slow reflexes /versus/images/icons/wink.gif - your normal grab (Lion's semicircle grab) is so lightning fast - most of the time Andrew can't even react to it (don't see it coming)!! You punch first, then immediately grab...WHOA... it totally gets me off guard. And it wasn't as if I was standing there for ages or anything...
     
  12. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Personally i haven't seen anyone in S'pore low throw a low P yet..........got to see it myself !

    Does it mean that if one can low throw a low P one can also elbow/stagger the opponent?


    Yes, but the key is that the low punch misses. This is why one of the suggestions that we had for low punch whores earlier was to back off, create some space, so that the low punch whiffs. Your character isn't in block stun and you can then punish the whiffed low punch.
     
  13. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    "Thanx Creed.You probably won,t see any player doing that in Singapore..........for now!!!!"

    Heh...thats where you are wrong, played with Kiat yesterday and I was low throwed 2-3 times after I whiffed my low punch. But its really not a threat, when you consider the fact that I played like 20+ games with him. I'm really more concerned about his MC low punches/punches --->GS/knee combo, man Wolf's MC knee combo does up to 50% damage! Arrgh...
     
  14. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    See your BF saw the low P grab too. I could not really do the low P grab in the earlier version of VF, partly because Lion never had a low p.

    The b,f+P+K, throw is sort off buffered in. That move recovers soo fast that I can barely see if it connects or what. Basically you alternate between throw and elbow. Very good move.
     
  15. cdasher

    cdasher Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Ok! At least it's not life threatening! Still,it's a small alternative to low P abusers! Moving back to interupt a Low P........hmmm quite difficult unless u anticipate the low P coming!

    About wolf's stupid knee combo........i always use Low P to interupt kiat's knee so he seldom have a chance to execute it!
    HeHe : )
     
  16. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Yeah, its not always possible to move back(especially when your opponent is hounding you). If your opponent decides not to low punch, a reasonably quick mid-level or a throw will get you so its pretty risky to move back sometimes.

    Use low Punch to interrupt knee? heh...that is only possible if his punch didn't hit you. =)
     
  17. Pinkgirl

    Pinkgirl Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    See your BF saw the low P grab too. I could not really do the low P grab in the earlier version of VF, partly because Lion never had a low p.

    <hr></blockquote>



    Yar...sorry bout that... *blushes* I probably wasn't observing his games with Kiat properly, or might have missed those games he had with Kiat in which he was low-throwed after a low punch 'cos of my frequent toilet trips (too much water). /versus/images/icons/blush.gif lol
     
  18. cdasher

    cdasher Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Moving back to elbow/stagger against a GS abusing wolf would probably mean eating the GS while retreating. Really not advisable!
     
  19. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Re: Low punch whining.

    Back crouch dash or just hold down-back so you are crouching and don't have to worry about the high throws... (am I missing something here?)
     

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