Offensive Move Thread

One of the biggest additions to VF5 is the OM... It seems to be a high risk / high reward move... Players arn't using it nearly as much as say DM... It's still possible to win without it: is it going to become as essential to play as DM? Here are my expereiences with it...

I've had a fair amount of success starting rounds with an OM ... Especially against Lau or Akira it seems like there is a good chance I can get a side / back crumple at the beginning... This could be because of the attacks Lau / Akira players often use at the start of rounds, or because I mainly play against Laus and Akiras...

Timing is strict... It is really easy to get hit out of an OM...

OM can be used to avoid full circular attacks where a DM would fail...

From what I read it is best to used OM in a big advantage situation, but it seems only effective if the opponent attacks... I've tried using OM when the opponent is staggered (big advantage) without any success... In this cause the opponent will just automatically face you...

A successful OM can lead to a side or back crumple... During a side crumple the opponent takes a while to hit the ground, so there is plenty of time to hit check and then do your combo of choice...

With a back crumple the opponent falls quickly... Getting a low back throw is guaranteed but you have to be fast, must faster than a side crumple...

You have to check to see which one you get... Sometimes I could have sworn I got a back crumple, but instead got a side crumple and whiffed a low throw and blew my combo opportunity...

Today someone used OM against my Kage's , which resulted in them being directly behind me...

I've tried using OM to get behind rising attacks without much success so far... Timing / distance are probably strict factors... Dre said hes seen this successfully done in some movies...

I don't know if I agree that OM should only be used in advantaged situations... Most opponents will use full circular attacks when you are at a disadv and are likely to dodge... OM can be used against full circular attacks... How often do you do a full circular when you are at a big disadvantage?

-Alex

 

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Sometimes I could have sworn I got a back crumple, but instead got a side crumple and whiffed a low throw and blew my combo opportunity...

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Was this because of El Blaze's lack of a certain combo starter in that situation? I remember Jeff still being able to take advantage even after a whiffed low throw attempt. Of course it could be only Jeff with this advantage. (God dammit I wish were able to tell by experience, and not as a spectator)

 

How about OM ?

I've seen Sarah players using OM to stagger opponents, which in turn they launch the opponent out of stagger since it's so fast.

While it's true that OM should not be used like DM in disadvantage, like I've said before in older threads, I believe that OM should not be thought of as an evade, but rather an angled forward dash.

 

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Jerky said:
Was this because of El Blaze's lack of a certain combo starter in that situation? I remember Jeff still being able to take advantage even after a whiffed low throw attempt. Of course it could be only Jeff with this advantage. (God dammit I wish were able to tell by experience, and not as a spectator)

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Since side crumple animation lasts forever I did have enough time to get in a small combo (maybe elbow knee), but not what I would have gone for if I had known it was a side crumple off the bat...

-Alex

 

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Srider said:

How about OM ?


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I havn't experimented that much with OM but my guess is on block there is less disadvantage than OM ... I don't think OM can lead to a side crumple...

When OM (and some other attacks, for example Blaze's +) hit from the side it can put the opponent in a stagger where it is possible to launch with moves that don't normally launch... For example sometimes I think OM causes a side crumple and go for a combo with Blaze like: +->... Even if my OM doesn't cause a side crumple, if the opponent is still side turned the first hit of that combo will cause the opponent to side stagger, and the second hit will launch them, sometimes allowing me to add the to the end to nail the combo even though it wasn't a side crumple... I could probably go for a better combo though... I saw in a recent video Blaze hit someone in a stagger with -> ... it was nasty...

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While it's true that OM should not be used like DM in disadvantage, like I've said before in older threads, I believe that OM should not be thought of as an evade, but rather an angled forward dash.

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That being said, I've still found it is more useful when getting around opponent's attacks... If the opponent is just sitting there, or even if they are staggered, you can OM all you want but the opponent is just going to face you automatically... Unless its used for positioning, I'm not sure how useful it is unless you use it to get to your opponents side / back while they are attacking...

-Alex

 

in continuation of the above:

So that would make OM a yomi-ish device. Usable as a dodge but only from the earliest frames of the opponent's move's execution?

High risk indeed.

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Into guessing mode (hoping to spark an idea here):

Isn't there a built in OM-attack? Like the evade P+K+G? Delaying the evade attack always enlengthened the ground the evade covered. Maybe there's some kind of device like that in place with OM as well.

Inserting a CD after OM or an OM left followed by an OM right (or vice versa), there must be some way you can get back to back in there, which would be a good proposition if you're playing Kage or Sarah due to their good BT game. (Goh seems to have gotten a BT throw, I've seen him do a little back shuffle in some vids, haven't seen it connect yet though.)

I've seen the OM get used madly in a ring-side-moment, where the two were facing each other with their sides to the edge.

aside:
Yeah, being a spectator in this is simply not funny.

 

The one doing the OM always seems to face the other, so an intentional back-to-back looks impossible.

I don't suppose there's any point to doing an OM around a crumpling opponent, say after the side-crumple? Given how long that animation is, you could probably get to their back and see if moves have different, more advantageous properties there. Maybe something like OM K (MC), OM back, low-throw or spike juggle.

I don't know, I still have trouble seeing how OM fits into the game. I really thought it would be usable during staggers, sort of like the AM Show trailer.

 

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supergolden said:

That being said, I've still found it is more useful when getting around opponent's attacks... If the opponent is just sitting there, or even if they are staggered, you can OM all you want but the opponent is just going to face you automatically... Unless its used for positioning, I'm not sure how useful it is unless you use it to get to your opponents side / back while they are attacking...

-Alex

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That's what I'm trying to get at. Think of it like a forward dash mixed with evade when you have the advantage. You are obviously going to attack from it, either just with normal moves or the OM or . If the opponent is attacking out of disadvantage, which we know happens, you will get around the opponent's side and potentially side crumble them. If they don't attack, you are attacking normally as usual anyways.

 

hmmm, interesting this should pop up exactly a day later...

For illustration purposes:
Uses of OM from advantage and disadvantage.
up0261.wmv
at 00:32

First Vane uses OM+P from advantage (after blocking Sarah's elbow), followed by the barrel punch (f,f+P). Sarah on her turn eats the OM+P and OM's around the barrel punch into fd+P to regain initiative.

 

Either my old stick sucks real bad or I suck real bad. I try this OM in the dojo and it never comes out all the time. What is the deal with this? I What am I supposed to be doing to make it work 75% of the time? Is there a very strict frame area where the buttons have to be pressed? If so what is it? Is there another more complete thread on this topic? I searched but never found one.

 

It's accomplished by starting an evade (tap 2 or 8) then hitting all three buttons (p+k+g) just a moment later. To focus on the timing first, I'd map p+k+g to one unnecessary button like R1 or something, and just tap up or down to evade then R1 to change it into an OM. After you're used to the timing (there will be a 'swoosh' sound, you can't miss it when an OM comes out), just start slapping p+k+g at the same time on your stick. It's just muscle memory/practice.

Execution isn't really that strict but it must be done quickly.

 

Just make sure you don't press them at the exact same time. The direction should go first, followed quickly by P+K+G.

 

I'm having a lot of trouble getting OM's to actually work. I can do the command 100% of the time, but I usually get hit out of it. Its like as soon as I press p+k+g my opponent re-tracks back to me and hits me. Does anyone have any good examples of the types of moves to OM against?

Srider - based on your previous post, would you say its better to OM when you are at advantage? That is, if your opponent is going to attack from disadvantage, you can OM around it and get a deeper side hit?

I just need some general advice about when to use this and how to make it effective. I've seen videos of Jeffry OM'ing someone in the back for a back throw. Thats what I'd like to learn how to do.

 

just tap the buttons as soon as you side step. and the attack button right after that.. its actually really simple. its not something you can delay like the the p+k ss attack if your doing OM you have to have decided on it and commit 100%

 

You can't dodge attacks with OM in disadvantage. OM is one of those things where there is no exact science to it, but start with using it towards the opponent's back during side turned situations or using it when you have decent advantage in general.

 

I have no more problems woth making OM work, it was just the horrible stick I had. Now I have a HRAP3 and everything works fine.

 

Thanks, Srider. I think I really understand why its called an Offensive move. After a bit of experimentation, I really understand how it works much better. But its still not something I think I'll be using much of. My main character is Vanessa and her OM's aren't that great, except for one. But one out of 4 isn't worth the effort.

When I start playing Jeffry again though, I'll definately be using it!

 

I have had a lot of fun with the OM's, mainly Brad's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif OM. I've had a pretty decent success rate because I when I do use it it's mainly to put pressure on a tech-rolling opponent. I like the head game potential for OM's because once I sidestep and then press /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif an opponent usually tries to do a rising attack to hit me out of it but if you get the timing right you can hit them out of their attack and continue with a combo if counter-hit or apply nitaku on a regular hit OR if the opponent gets up and blocks or tries to sidestep then I dont press any button and just do the Offensive sidestep without the OM and go for the throw. Of course there's other things you can do after but, like I said, it's a really fun addition to VF and it REALLY helps you cut the distance way faster and in a more unpredictable way than straight dashing/crouch dashing.

 

BTW, there are some REALLY good uses of OM's in the VF5 exhibition matches. The matches on the disk are amazing.
Check out Lau Vs. Lei to see really good use of OM's.
Classic.

 

Yo, this is DancingFighterG. This is some interesting stuff. I like what you are talking about tonyfamilia. So just sidestep first and then do the P+k+g. Good thinking!!