Okay, I'm going to lay it out there...

I chose a new thread, as this one isn't based on moves, or any play aspects of FT.

To sum up my feelings on this: Too little too late. Yeah, I've only been playing casually for about a year or so. You can blame it on me dropping my smoking habit, getting married, wanting to save money, or whatever... BUT, the fact remains... a year after EVO came out, there wasn't enough there to keep me going to the arcades every day and spending $20. On that note, I really can't say there's anything in FT that makes me want to pull my pants down the way EVO did when it came out.

My overall thoughts: We've waited two years for some new moves, some new animations, some OLD moves (WTF?), new backgrounds, some single player modes, and no new characters. If this were a real update, IE -- came out a year after EVO, and not two, and didn't cost 200,000 yen, I think it would be stomachable.

On the note of the price, I think they are REALLY fucking some of the samller arcades. I've only been a handful of times since FT was released a couple of weeks ago. Some small arcades, a couple of larger than average (Shibuya Gigo). Sometimes on weekends, and sometimes on weekdays. With 5 machines, I don't think I've ever seen them all filled up once. I'm sure Nishispo is a different story, but it's the exception really.

I guess financially we won't know for a while, but I can't imagine game centers being happy with spending $10,000 on 5 new GD-Roms, and not having people lined up to play them.

Anyone else agree? I'm all for Sega making money, but I'm also for them being innovative like they were a few years ago, and are slowly (or not so slowly) moving away from.

 

GaijinPunch, you're not the only one who thinks that way. I'm pretty much set on VF5 myself. FT's about money more than anything else, Evo actually felt or atleast gave you the illusion of being a sequel (A very good sequel at that). FT seems more like a patch. Alot of ppl seem to be in denial about it... either that or it doesn't take much to get them excited. I love the new moves and all but everything just seems vanilla compared to Evo. Not trying to be controversial or anything just being frank.

I won't argue on this.

 

Kewl -- at least one person agrees with me. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif If it wasn't such an expensive hobby I probably wouldn't care (IE -- if they were console only) but VF is based on playing a LOT of matches at 75 cents a pop. I'm guess I'm cheap now that I'm married.

Hope everyone has been doing okay though!

 

VF4 Evo was VF4 4.5! VF4 FT is VF 4.6!!
What I like most in there is new intros!!

AM2 is taking advantage of the VF4 success at most by creating numerous upgrades/versions. AM2 has a updating frenzy. I was expecting more from VF4 FT: new characters, new music, Goh and Brad to get their personal stage, lots of new items, etc but.....

 

I think they are just trying to keep the game popular until VF5 comes out. I didn't know it was costing Gamecenters that much money though...

I'd be surprised if they weren't sucessful though, it seems like people are always going to be playing VF. This is just something to keep people busy =)

New stages and music would have been really nice though, but at least they fleshed out some of the characters more and changed things a bit with red/yellow counters... they aren't sticklers in the gameplay department. And the new costume options are REALLY sick. I dunno, still looking forward to wasting all my money on VF.

 

I pretty much agree with the opinions in this thread. In theory Final Tuned could have been an Evo sized update; changed stages, new moves, new items, YC/RC/SRC system. It sounds like a good update, but I think it falls short. Most of the stages have been changed but one or two new ones would have helped - we have the same stages from ver. c repackaged again. The new moves that I've looked at seem to be the best part of the update to FT (which I guess is a good thing) and the items are ok. I think the most disappointing or perhaps anti-climactic change was the new MC system. When it was announced that FT would have yellow and red counters everyone was thinking that it would change the way they played VF, and when SRC was confirmed it could have been quite complex - figuring out which of the three counters you have then applying whatever tactic is appropriate would have been quite interesting, (SRC specific combos would be awesome and that may come as people tool around with the game more) but from the limited stuff I've seen it hasn't made much difference.

All that said I've really not decided on whether FT is a bad update. It's not like I think it's such a shoddy update that I won't play it (much like alot of people on VFDC I guess) but if sega had sweetened the deal a little then this thread wouldn't exist (probably /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

As for sega I don't think this will hurt them. Evo was such a successful update, gameplay and extras wise that the general feeling for FT will be optimistic. If Evo was churned out quickly and was average there would be a lot more cynicism about FT but sega has created FT coming from a good update - capcom comparisons don't stick yet. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Maybe you feel this way towards FT partly due to sentimental/subconscious reasons? If I was going to leave Japan after such a long period, and have been married for a while and played less VF before leaving I would probably think the same way toward any VF version at the time, be it FT or even VF5 /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I don't know if the day when I stop "following" VF will come when I start to see the game become less interesting for me, or when I just decide to sacrifice something I like to move on with life....

Pardon the weird post... I am in a transitional period myself (maybe not as critical as yours though), having just returned home after studying at the US for 5 years, and trying to think of the best route to take now that I made it to the intersection. Good luck in what you will be doing man /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

To be semi-on-topic though, I am loving Akira's ++, hit throw, ++ ~ , etc., Aoi's craziness, and Lei's rolling hotness /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

 

My thoughts on the deal,

While it is true that FT isn't a huge update, I'm glad it came out! I don't know enough about the arcades here and how they make money to comment on that, but at the Fukui Sega Arena on weekends (and to a lesser extent some week nights) all five of their FT machines are getting steady play until closing! You usually have to wait at least a little bit to get in a game - Rich says it was like that sometimes during Evo, but now it is definitely the norm... I think FT re-vitalized interest in VF in arcades that VF did well at during Evo, although I dno't think it is gonna bring a whole lot more action to arcades that never really saw that much to begin with...

-Alex

 

Many of the guys view FT as good news.

As for myself, having played the game since vf2, I have seen friends entering and exiting the game. Till date, most the original group left the game except for a few old friends from the early vf days. Most left out of boredom and one even told me that vf 4 is just no longer as captivating.

However, I see vf as a melting pot of personalities where people from different walks of life put down whatever they have to do, just to play it out in a game. That is something so difficult to see these days as we age. More often than not, the closest friends we have become mere strangers and having no common activity to participate.

And, the amazing thing about vf is that its just a game without bounds and you can see people of diverse occupations as salesmen to students playing. Its a wonderful experience playing with these guys.

Regardless of whether ft comes out in singapore or not, the regulars in Singapore will still be playing. The spirit of vf will persist and live on, regardless of whether ft is a money spinning plot of sega.

Honestly, the guys here (in singapore) are probably not at all bothered, because its the game we are playing and corporate nit nats are best left to business philosophers. We are gamers, not businessmen.

 

Well, I don't think it's that hard for arcades to recover the cost of software. Let's assume the average match takes 5 minutes, from beginning to end (it's more like 3 minutes, isn't it?), and 100 yen per play. This means that in one hour, the arcade will earn approximately 2,400 yen in revenue with versus play. To recover the cost of the game, the game would need approximately 84 hours of play.

If you think about it, that's not that much. On a Friday or Saturday night at a decent VF hotspot, machines would get at least 6 hours of constant play. On a normal weekday, it can't be worse than 2 or 3 hours. Worst case, in a week, a game probably gets 24 hours of play, meaning that arcades only need 4 weeks to recover the cost of the game! Considering a VF iteration usually has a shelf life of about 100 weeks, that's not bad.

The big cost is not the games themselves, but in the rental space, staff, and expensive cabinets. The economics is such that, if your local arcade is doing badly, it's not because they purchased too many FT machines--it's probably because they were doing badly to begin with. It's not as if they had loads of people lining up to play Evo who disappeared after FT came out.

If your local arcade is doing well, FT can only be a good thing. The cost is relatively easy to recover if the traffic is there, and FT revives interest in a 4 year old game.

I can probably only speak for myself, but I'd venture FT is definitely a good thing for the target market (hardcore players). Obviously, there comes a point where too many sequels begin to dilute the brand for consumers (a la SF2), but personally I don't think we're anywhere near that.

P.S. I hope to be a businessman and a VFer. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

I've been doing similar revenue estimations with our local operator. The North American numbers are unfortunately not as convincing, but they're not bad either. From Evo, I had written down every match during versus play during a 4 week period. I think this was from a 'every Saturday night' kinda thing with the regular Toronto players. On average, we would manage to get in 95 matches for the night. At 0.50, that's $50.

What I didn't have written down was the time we started at. I know we went until closing - somewhere around 2am, usually. If I reverse engineer our 95 matches with your 5 minute estimate, that's 475 minutes, or approximately 8 hours. Looks like we started around 6:00 pm then if we're finishing at 2:00 am.

So, given the cost of the FT upgrade, afaik, it's in the 3000 (CDN) range, at $50 for a night of regular versus play, it will take 60 nights. I'd say we be able to get regular play in both Friday and Saturday nights, so that knocks it down to 30 weeks. I'd say given the exclusivity of the arcade version, the popularity should be able to last that long...add in a tolerance of decreasing popularity and money made during the random plays of the day and non regular evenings and the machine should pay for itself in a 52 week period - or one year. I'm being conservative, but I'm also being realistic for a difficult VF market.

A year. Hmm...not the greatest investment, especially if a console version comes out and people leave the arcade version alone. Any play after a year, is profit. Let's hope for the operator's sake that FT remains an arcade only deal as I think VF5 will be farther away from reality than a year.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

Well, I don't think it's that hard for arcades to recover the cost of software. Let's assume the average match takes 5 minutes, from beginning to end (it's more like 3 minutes, isn't it?), and 100 yen per play. This means that in one hour, the arcade will earn approximately 2,400 yen in revenue with versus play. To recover the cost of the game, the game would need approximately 84 hours of play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's right -- now multiply that by 5. The game center needs some 400+ hours of gameplay to pay off the 260,000 GD-ROM (sorry - I quoted it wrong the first time). I have no doubt that Gigo, Nishisupo, High Tech, etc. will make their money back and then some. I'm talking about Johnny Tanaka, running a small game center, where people are NOT lining up.

Maybe it's a different scene outside of Tokyo, but Ver. C. was crowded a lot longer than Evo, and it looks like Evo will be much more long-winded than FT. Just my initial thoughts... it's still young though, so who knows.

[ QUOTE ]
Friday or Saturday night at a decent VF hotspot, machines would get at least 6 hours of constant play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but again -- I'm not referring to hotspots. I'm referring to run-of-the-mill arcades.

[ QUOTE ]
On a normal weekday, it can't be worse than 2 or 3 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even Club Sega has worse numbers than this on some weekdays.

Of course one could argue that they shouldn't have bought so many machines, but I still argue that Sega charged too fucking much for a pretty weak update.

Bu_Jason: I see where you're going, but it's not my move. I started drifting away from the VF scene a good year and a half or so before getting married, and I didn't know I was going to move until March of this year. I just got bored... I started updating my site, improved my web development skills, and started playing a bunch of games I missed out on.

 

[ QUOTE ]
scolaire said:

Many of the guys view FT as good news.

As for myself, having played the game since vf2, I have seen friends entering and exiting the game. Till date, most the original group left the game except for a few old friends from the early vf days. Most left out of boredom and one even told me that vf 4 is just no longer as captivating.

However, I see vf as a melting pot of personalities where people from different walks of life put down whatever they have to do, just to play it out in a game. That is something so difficult to see these days as we age. More often than not, the closest friends we have become mere strangers and having no common activity to participate.

And, the amazing thing about vf is that its just a game without bounds and you can see people of diverse occupations as salesmen to students playing. Its a wonderful experience playing with these guys.

Regardless of whether ft comes out in singapore or not, the regulars in Singapore will still be playing. The spirit of vf will persist and live on, regardless of whether ft is a money spinning plot of sega.

Honestly, the guys here (in singapore) are probably not at all bothered, because its the game we are playing and corporate nit nats are best left to business philosophers. We are gamers, not businessmen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply brilliant.

 

[ QUOTE ]
GaijinPunch said:

I'm talking about Johnny Tanaka, running a small game center, where people are NOT lining up.



[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't have to buy it.

 

so, thats a slap in the face to that guy....Gaijin is echoing what I have said for a while - this is more a money grabbing effort..if Sega really wanted to do something positive, they would release this update for free/nominal cost.

 

Josh, you make it sound like Sega makes VF because it wants to make people happy.

They make VF to make money, dude. No two ways about it - they're in business to make money. And to be perfecty honest, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. *And*, they don't owe the players or the operators, or for that matter *you*, ANYTHING.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

People make other people happy to earn money. The people who makes the money get happy. So OFCOURSE they are doing it to make people happy.

I don't see the problem /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

I see the problem. Here's the problem:

"People make other people happy to earn money"

This sentence makes no sense. Oh, and did I mention that nonchalant ( For your reference, because I know you're going to need it) useless comments are also part of the problem?

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

I think that AM2 likes making VF. It has to be a labor of love to some extent, or the game wouldn't be so great. It is an art after all.

We have it great now people, relatively speaking. Remember how long we had only VF3? There have been three fully realized VFs in the same amount of time that we only had VF3. Personally, I don't care about FT. I will play it, sure, but I can still play Evo for about as long as anyone is willing to play with me.

 

[ QUOTE ]
GaijinPunch said:

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

Well, I don't think it's that hard for arcades to recover the cost of software. Let's assume the average match takes 5 minutes, from beginning to end (it's more like 3 minutes, isn't it?), and 100 yen per play. This means that in one hour, the arcade will earn approximately 2,400 yen in revenue with versus play. To recover the cost of the game, the game would need approximately 84 hours of play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's right -- now multiply that by 5. The game center needs some 400+ hours of gameplay to pay off the 260,000 GD-ROM (sorry - I quoted it wrong the first time). I have no doubt that Gigo, Nishisupo, High Tech, etc. will make their money back and then some. I'm talking about Johnny Tanaka, running a small game center, where people are NOT lining up.


[/ QUOTE ]

gp, your math is off. johnny tanaka doesnt have 5 machines. hes got 1. if he doesnt have the traffic and he buys 5 machines, then hes just a bad business man and sega has nothing to do with it. for johnny tanaka (the good business man with 1 machine), 80 - 100 hours of play should not be a problem at all.