okizemi

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by alantan, Oct 20, 2001.

  1. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    I am wondering if anyone know anything this.

    I have read a good post about properties of tech rolls. How about normal rising kicks?? My impression is that the rising kick is much weaker now. The rising kick do not cause much of a stagger and in fact a connected rising kick do not guarantee much initiative. Is that true? How about blocked rising kicks, are the throw counterable?
     
  2. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    Haiz...Went to Bugis earlier on(abt 9pm), didn't see you...guess you had already left.
    Anyway, d p(from standing position) is real strong in VF4, I suspect its now 10-11 frames(similar to VF2...yucks), not the 16 frames in VF3. I was using Lau against some guy who was playing Pai and every time my f p, p hits, a simple d p will interrupt most of my follow up moves(including f p!!!).
    I don't have the frame stats yet but if this is true, I'm not playing VF4 no more.
    And yeah, rising kicks sort of suck in VF4, but you are not likely to be thrown after its blocked now, your opponent's got to be close cause throws take longer to register in VF4(ugh).



    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by alucard on 10/20/01 12:23 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
     
  3. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    I played ys Kiat's Sarah. A WHOLE assortment of pokes... very tough asthey short of brain freeze you for the throw. I think down P is blockable H and you should have initiative if you block it, but it is funny that a d+P should win an elbow...
     
  4. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    I was using Lau against some guy who was playing Pai and every time my f p, p hits, a simple d p will interrupt
    most of my follow up moves(including f p!!!).
    I don't have the frame stats yet but if this is true, I'm not playing VF4 no more.


    Stop thinking like you're still playing VF2. If his low punch is stuffing your next attack then try dodging then attacking mid-level so that you interrupt his low punch instead... I don't know Pai good enough... something that starts a good float combo on a major counter would be best.

    --
    "VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater
     
  5. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Although thinking VF2 may not be bad for some aspects. We were discussing VF4 low punching on #vfhome, and I remembered the fact that in VF2, if you block your opponents low punch, or if it whiffs, your own low punch will MC almost anything he does. It seems to be more or less the same deal in VF4, although it'll probably need more investigation. Regardless, you can do so much with a low punch MC, and if you get the hang of that reaction it might help an awful lot.

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  6. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    You've totally missed the point.
    In VF3, low punches FROM A STANDING POSITION will NEVER have priority over mid-level attacks because its much slower(11f crouching Vs 16f standing). In VF2(probably VF4 as well?), a low punch is well...a low punch, whether its done from a couching or standing position, its always 10/11 frames.

    Such a "thing" is obviously undesirable(thats why it was tweaked in VF3), a low poke(from standing) this fast will interrupt almost all attacks and players will start to "abuse" it when they are pressured(thats one of the many reasons why VF2 suck).

    Sure, there's always the dodge option, but dodging can be interrupted by linear attacks in VF4, I suspect dodging properties have sort of changed in VF4, can't say this is a bad thing though.
     
  7. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Screw you, VF2 rules.

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  8. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    err, your point is a little hazy, unless you mean to reply to someone else.
    Yupa told the player to try a midlevel (or dodge-midlevel) to beat low punches.
    your reply was "you're missing the point, the low punch is too slow to beat a midlevel in VF3" ... .

    My two cents to the player: use b,b then G. Just dash back a half step then use guard to stop yourself. You see it a lot in the korea movies. You put yourself just out of low punch range and you are just close enough to stick out an elbow and hit crouching opponents. It's faster than a dodge anyway.


    /versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>
     
  9. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    I think this is why they made low P's blockable from standing. That doesn't deal with the MC issue, but it does weaken them.

    And for Lau, his d+P+K crushes low punches.

    Spotlite
     
  10. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    If VF2 was so good, AM2 wouldn't have tweaked away so many of those undesirable dumb features eg. Hit-counter select, d p crap, etc...haha...air combo damage wasn't even moderated in VF2.
    Yeah right, VF2 rules...in your dreams.


    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by alucard on 10/21/01 03:02 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
     
  11. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    You won't be able to punish your opponent if you back dashed i.e back dash+stun time+side kick/elbow=blocked attack.
     
  12. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    What I really meant was a move shouldn't serve more than one purpose in a "fair" game, I don't know about you guys, but I certainly loathe the hit-counter select crap in VF2, and low pokes really shouldn't be countering mid-level attacks and high attacks at the same time, unless its done from a crouching position of course.
     
  13. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    You won't be able to punish your opponent if you back dashed i.e back dash+stun time+side kick/elbow=blocked attack.

    What "stun time"? You back [crouch] dash to make the low punch whiff then side kick to get the minor counter [stagger combo] during the low punch's recovery time. If your opponent's low punch misses you have all the initiative you could ever ask for.

    Is there now recovery time when you G-cancel a back dash? You should be able to attack immediately after b,b,G. And I'm guessing that you don't even need to press G. You should be able to cancel the back dash by just entering in another attack before the back dash is completed.

    What I really meant was a move shouldn't serve more than one purpose in a "fair" game, I don't know about you guys, but I certainly loathe the hit-counter select crap in VF2, and low pokes really shouldn't be countering mid-level attacks and high attacks at the same time, unless its done from a crouching position of course.

    You're not playing VF3 anymore... I liked the way low punches worked in VF2.

    From what I've read so far, if you dodge in VF4 while your opponent is attacking, the dodge is much greater and more useful than if you simply dodge in the middle of the ring at a distance from your opponent. If this is incorrect, let me know.

    --
    "VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater
     
  14. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    ...O for fucks sake. Why me.

    *sigh*

    You take a game for what it's worth, it's face value, on it's own. Comparing it to another game is supremely retarded. It would be like saying Alien sucked compared to Aliens, _specifically_ because it didn't have Bill Paxton in it. It's stupid. It just doesn't work. And they did update VF2, less than a year after its release, with VF2.1 - and they didn't change the stuff you're whining about.

    And you're arguing against yourself - it's pretty clear that AM2 has reverted back to VF2 style in more than a few areas.

    187981567465456417867813567 Japanese players can't all be wrong, and the fact that VF2 was still being played late in VF3tb's life in Japan really says something. They can't all be dipshits who dislike and/or can't deal with the OS the low punches. Neither can all the VF2 players crawling out of the woodwork glad that VF4 has gone back to VF2 style.

    It's one thing to dislike a game because of a certain aspect, but to dislike it over an aspect you don't understand or can't learn to deal with (while countless others could) is really silly. Especially to argue against it by comparing it to a later, completely different game is even more idiotic.

    Fehhh....

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  15. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    """From what I've read so far, if you dodge in VF4 while your opponent is attacking, the dodge is much greater and more useful than if you simply dodge in the middle of the ring at a distance from your opponent. If this is incorrect, let me know"""

    Aye Yupa...if U can yomi well enuff..U can INDEED evade while the attack is in progress...n do a happy counter move~ n Watch the Jacky player scream ' Oh, THE EVADE SYSTEM IS SO CHEAP'..or some other unhappy comment.

    Really easy example...Jacky does a elbow->backfist->kick (flowchart) While Jacky does the elbow, U can enterr the evade command...which makes U really evade the backfist totally...U can even evade the following kick as well~! This really lets u punish Jacky.

    Of coz...as the evading player..U have two problems.
    A) Jacky might delay the backfist
    B) U should pay attention to Jacky's stance...U dun wanna walk into the backfist while ur intention is to avoid it~!

    I know..cause I did the above evading scenario myself~!

    Yikes Yupa...I just contributed to another technical discussion..this might get addictive~! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    <font color=red>~~~ 'Flock off feather brain, or u can stick around and find out the hard way!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'
     
  16. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    quick plug and gameplay note, you mention the 'major counter dodge' being much better... YES! There are CANNED DODGE MC'S in VF4. It's in one of the movies on my server. Akira dodges a rising attack perfectly, and he makes a "ha" sound from his dashing elbow. Except he clearly wasn't doing any moves, just evading. He then bodychecked the missed rising attack.
    Cool concept, although the random yell is sort of weird. But at least it makes it clear.


    /versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>
     
  17. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    The random yell used to totally throw me off. Like a throw was escaped or a dodging hook kick... When I watched one of the early Chibita clips, he dodged Sarah and made the sound and with the not-so-great quality of the visuals, I almost thought he had escaped a throw or something...

    But yeah, I figure it's just a dodge. But it's weird... (Sorry if I broke any posting principals, but I totally agree on the weird thing about the "random yell."). I guess it is an indicator for the opponent (oh! he dodged me! :p)

    -Chanchai
     
  18. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    audio dodge indicator?

    This is cool. You mean if you successfully dodge an opponent's move (i.e. get the larger more beneficial dodge) your character makes some sort of noise? Can those who are playing ver B confirm this? That's a great feature IMO. Could someone start making a list of the specific noises/grunts if they're taken from already existing attacks like Akira's dashing elbow?

    --
    "VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater
     
  19. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: audio dodge indicator?

    the noise will be there when u successfully evade a move.
    If u're not successful..u're merely moving from left...to right~

    BTW, I tested it out on the cpu todae...I managed to evade a rising attack n went straight to the cpu's back ...

    What I did was forward CDs..then just as the cpu was abt to do a high rising attack... I tapped d, D n ' Jacky scream "YEAH'' I got to Kage's back~! very fun indeed~~~

    Another thing for all u Kage lovers out there

    U can try this....d+p+k, k...
    if it Mcs against Light weights..as soon as Kage hits the ground after the TA flipkick animation, go for the kill with Kage's kickflip!!!

    I was a victim of this move /versus/images/icons/mad.gif
    Bloody cpu

    Oh god..contributing to technical stuff is actually quite fun~

    <font color=red>~~~ 'exam time=lotsa maggie me, very broke, no real food, no sleep, no sex!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'
     
  20. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    movement system

    To reiterate what Summers said:

    - You'll get the character yell/grunt whenever you successfully evade an attack. There's nothing random about it.

    - You can evade rising kicks, both high and low. It's just like in VF3. To answer alan's original post, rising kicks have more vulerabilities associated with them but the tradeoff is that they're not throw counterable when blocked. At least, that's how it appears so far.

    - You only need to tap up or down once to evade. A 'tap' infers a return to neutral.

    This might clear a few things up about the movement system:

    tap down = step out of the screen
    hold down = crouch

    tap up = step into the screen
    hold up = walk into the screen

    tap forward = nothing special
    hold forward = walk forward

    tap backward = nothing special
    hold backward = walk backward

    tap any diagonal = step in that direction
    (tap any downward diagonal twice = crouch dash in that direction)
    (tap any upward diagonal twice = nothing special)
    hold any diagonal = walk in that direction

    Once you begin a walk, you can freely move in any of the 8 directions.
     

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