On SegaWeb...

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

Well...

I can believe they jumped on him like that. This is how they are here. Indeed if you are not kissing their asses or not 1 of them they don't want you here. LOL look a Jason talking all that rubish about he does not like it when the average gamer reviews a VF game. Who the fuck are you? Really...you guys act like YOU made the dam thing. So you have no life so the game is your life...SO? Not everyone has to be like you dicks. In other words FUCK you all!

Machiavelli

PS Rich fuck you too...

adamYUKI · Jul 10, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

Who the fuck are you? Really...you guys act like YOU made the dam thing.

I feel ashamed to admit it, but this guy is right. I'll be the first to admit that the arrogance level of the established players can get a little out of hand.

*disclaimer* My comments above do not exclude me in any way - i am just as guilty at times. Just thought i'd make that clear before people start pouncing on me.

adsega · Jul 10, 2001

Tekken 4 - OH DEAR....

Spent all day playing this and getting footage.

If the previous T1/VF1, T3/VF3 debates frustrated you, then you will be in for a tough time with the Tekken 4 people. I am too tired to post anything coherent at the moment, and I can't say what I REALLY want to about T4 on our site. So I'll say it here, later.

What a piece of shit. ;-)

Adam Doree
GamerWeb.com

Myke · Jul 10, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

Enough already!

Firstly, what's with the "fuck you too" to Rich? If you have some personal beef with him, please deal with it privately -- we're not interested. And just in case you failed to notice not a single one of his replies in this thread were an attack on Doree, or anyone.

Secondly, yes, most of the VFers who've been around since the beginning are somewhat a little over-critical when it comes to matters of VF but a common trait I've found echoed here time and time again is a zero-tolerance for ignorance and laziness and the spreading of mis-information.

The attitude shown towards Doree was strong, and many have softened their initial opinions of him. However, mine has remained unchanged. Firstly, 85 movies is a ridiculuous amount of media when 9 out of 10 movies are redundant, showing basically the same thing over and over (failed SPoD and DLC attempts). It's like your favourite car manufacturer released their latest model car which you've been dying to see, then some guy wants to sell you movies of him racing around the track. When you watch the movies, not only does he lose it at every corner, he also makes no attempt at learning or experimenting with it. A bit of respect, ya know? Now try to imagine the facial expressions of those who are familiar with that line of car model watching an amateur thrash around a work of art.

And I could understand if it were an arcade setting, where he was playing to win, but he wasn't! It was on free-play for crying out loud and he was playing the CPU. If there were say one or two movies max per character then I'd think that would have sufficed, and the unimpressive gameplay wouldn't have left a bad taste in my mouth for as long. Let me quote Doree on segaweb.com:

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

For now, here's what you've been waiting for - PROPER movies of the game in action. You've already seen the rolling demos and introductions, now we can show you this fantastic in-game footage. Lots of it. But it's not just quantity we have here, these exclusive movies all boast the following quality credentials:

They are very high quality, some almost seem like "direct feed" captures. There is no camera shakiness, heads getting in the way, noise interference, or any other such crap. But then, this is GamerWeb, so that's exactly what you've come to expect...

They're from the FINAL version of the game, not the unfinished version on test. Even Japan doesn't have this version yet, and you won't find it in any public arcades just yet.

It's me playing the game. In some cases, this shows you some great Akira techniques! In others, it shows you how bad I am with some other characters. Did I mention there are eighty-five movies here? That's almost an hour's worth of footage.

<hr></blockquote>

I can't help but laugh at the "quality credentials"

A camcorder on a tripod is pretty fucking far from a direct feed. Scanlines, Doree's head getting in the way once, and there's the constant loud button clicking. "But then, this is GamerWeb, so that's exactly what you've come to expect..." haha.

The claim that these movies were from the final version were not supported at all in any of the actual movies. As some have already mentioned, the character select screen was missing Vanessa. A pre-emptive disclaimer would have prevented many of the "where's Vanessa" questions being asked, but even then, it still came down to people taking Doree's word for it. I as well as many others expected some kind of proof behind such a boast, and it was completely and utterly lacking.

The "showing some great Akira techniques" line is a joke. Had he not written that line, I wouldn't have had an issue with his "skill", but a boast like that is insulting.

Overall, the arrogance coming off Doree and the money-making segaweb.com just doesn't sit well with me.

Guest · Jul 11, 2001

Taping an arcade machine is illegal. Unless its a general rule of thumb that you can, its illegal. There are tons of copyright laws. Many simply may not be enforeced.

CrewNYC

Marginal · Jul 11, 2001

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

Taping an arcade machine is illegal. Unless its a general rule of thumb that you can, its illegal. There are tons of copyright laws. Many simply may not be enforeced.

<hr></blockquote>

If a law's not enforced or ever upheld by the courts, than the law's worthless. In the case of taping game footage, there's no precedent for it being illegal. (Unless you're breaking a NDA, but that's a whole different beast.) If you were taken to court over it, you'd probably have no trouble getting the case decided in your favor due to fair use. (Which is allowable by federal copyright law.)

It's like saying you can't capture a game off your home system then post it on the net. Every site on earth does it, and you never hear about a game company going after them. Why? Fair use.

Llanfair · Jul 11, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

Just thought i'd make that clear before people start pouncing on me.

<hr></blockquote>

Adam baby, worry not of people pouncing on you. It's simple. Just as you hit the ground, hit P+K+G. You'll avoid many pounces this way.

cheers,

Llanfair
Booyah daddy mac! I'm stylin!

Guest · Jul 11, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

1.) I don't care if you are not interested or not, either ban me or delete my post. (When Rich insults people here you be sure to tell him the same thing, even if he is your "buddy" and all)

2.) Basically you are making more excuses for yourself and your crew as to why you guys are so stuck up. (Sad really you have things to offer to gamers that are new to the game)

3.) Nevermind the fact that YOU and the others were newbies once. That Zero tolerance line is quite funny. Oh yes...Proves my point.

4.) OK so Doore is just like YOU boasting on how good he is. I guess you feel that YOU need to tell him how wrong he is eh? How ironic...

5.) Personal problem with Rich...Er personal LOL. Mike this is really amusing, really. How many times has Rich tried to rip a new asshole into people, because of that so called Zero Tolerance of yours? Yet you sit there and tell me to settle this privately. Get real...Basically YOU, Ice are so lenient with your buddies is not even funny. Ofcourse that has to do with that Zero Tolerance thing. Whatever dude...What's even more ironic is your "best player" admitted to the whole thing LOL!

Machiavelli

adamYUKI · Jul 11, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

LO fricking' L

Good one Llan!

Myke · Jul 11, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

1.) I don't care if you are not interested or not, either ban me or delete my post. (When Rich insults people here you be sure to tell him the same thing, even if he is your "buddy" and all)

When Rich flames somebody, it's usually for a reason, and a valid one at that. I don't play policeman here, I don't delete posts or ban people (at least I haven't had the need to) because they simply don't agree with me. I simply asked why you insulted Rich for no apparent reason. Since his posts in this thread (and lately too I might mention) have been quite civil, I can only assume that you've got a grudge against him from the past. And your response to my query is "ban me or delete my post". Just what is your problem anyway?

2.) Basically you are making more excuses for yourself and your crew as to why you guys are so stuck up. (Sad really you have things to offer to gamers that are new to the game)

I wasn't making excuses for anyone except myself. And before my last post, I hadn't said a thing about Doree or segaweb. I'm not on the defensive at all in this matter. I simply took the opportunity to explain which stance I had taken on the issue, in the hope that it may explain why some people don't think too highly of Doree right at this moment. Of course I don't speak for everyone.

3.) Nevermind the fact that YOU and the others were newbies once. That Zero tolerance line is quite funny. Oh yes...Proves my point.

You make is sound like I said I have no tolerance for newbies at all - which is not true! What I said was that I had no tolerance for ignorance, laziness and the spreading of mis-information. I'd be worried If you didn't understand the difference between the two statements. Please read more carefully next time, as I hate to repeat myself.

4.) OK so Doore is just like YOU boasting on how good he is. I guess you feel that YOU need to tell him how wrong he is eh? How ironic...

Doree is just like me how? Can you show me where I was boasting my skills? I didn't feel the need to tell him he was wrong, all I did was explain why I (and possibly others) don't look highly upon what he did with 85 VF4 movies - from the way they were advertised down to the actual content. I understand that he has a job to do, and I just think there's possibly a better way in which he could have done it.

5.) Personal problem with Rich...Er personal LOL. Mike this is really amusing, really. How many times has Rich tried to rip a new asshole into people, because of that so called Zero Tolerance of yours? Yet you sit there and tell me to settle this privately. Get real...Basically YOU, Ice are so lenient with your buddies is not even funny. Ofcourse that has to do with that Zero Tolerance thing. Whatever dude...What's even more ironic is your "best player" admitted to the whole thing LOL!

Well, like I previously mentioned, you attacked a user for no reason and I asked you why, to which you responded "ban or delete me". If there was nothing to go by in the actual thread your insult was in, or in any threads lately, what am I to think?

I challenge you to give me an example, just one, where I've treated my "buddies" differently to anyone else here. What do you say, sport?

Guest · Jul 11, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

Sport? Heh!

Wait a second you mean to tell me that Rich has flamed people for a good reason? Since when is a game more important than treating a person with respect? No doubt he knows his shit, does this mean that he should rip em a new one? Hence here is me saying Fuck You and here you come bla, bla, bla.

I have better things to do than look at the posts from the past and bring them up so you can see them. Search your self and you shall find what I speak to be true. (*If you don't want to admit to your doings so be it. However my task is done as one of your own has accepted the FACTS of life.*)

Indeed if you are not interested in my Fuck You report don't look or do as you wish. You coming to Rich's aid is proof enough that there is a "click" here. Why? You say he is correct in being a crude MF. Let it be known not to long ago one of Jeff's pals posted some shit on this very same thing that I talk about. Which is the arrogance in this place. Take that as you will.

Machiavelli

Mr. Bungle · Jul 11, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

i don't think myke is defending me so much as he is defending logic. your childish arguments are utter and complete crap.

otherwise i don't care what you think.

that's about as much as i can be bothered with this thread.

Guest · Jul 11, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

Yet you bother to reply? Yes I know you don't care. Uh huh! Logic? Yes yes, how pathetic...

DMan · Jul 13, 2001

Re: Tekken 4 - OH DEAR....

Adam,
I can't wait to hear what you have to say about this, and why you think T4 is so bad. I think it looks very promising, but of course I haven't played it yet.

-DMan-

adsega · Jul 14, 2001

Re: Tekken 4 - OH DEAR....

OK I was exaggerating - Tekken 4 is great and pretty fun to play. However, I played it with a known VF and Tekken guru and he believes Tekken 4 is merely what Tekken 3 SHOULD have been. The new fighter, Steve, is quite innovative in terms of control, as he has no kick-based techniques and the kick buttons instead activate defensive or evasive movements. The backgrounds look great, but c'mon - VF2's backgrounds looked great, had the same level of detail, and were true 3D.

If you ask me - Tekken 4 is going to be great, but it's six years behind the Virtua Fighter series, because this stuff has all been seen before in VF2, with the exception of walls which we saw in Fighting Vipers a year after VF2 anyway.

What annoys me is that the mainstream media and even the specialist press probably won't even touch on this - as far as they're concerned, this is the new Tekken, so it rules, and it's instantly better than VF4 because... er, we can't play VF4 and... it's Tekken!

Hopefully VF4's PS2 appearance will do a lot to kick this ignorance out of its comfy spot.

Adam Doree
GamerWeb.com

Guest · Jul 14, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

Man, I remember the first time I got flamed to a crisp on a VF board. It was actually back on RGVA regarding a Jacky post. ..

Anyway, I hate to say it, but even though Machiavelli comes across as a whining, childish ass, he has a point. It's just unfortunate that he makes his point with this whole "FUCK ALLYA#@!!@#" attitude because reading just makes you want to go "WELL FCUK YUO TO!@@!#"

... but seriously, what's he saying is very valid. VFers (at least when they cluster together on a message board) come across as a big asshole clique. In real life they couldn't be cooler. But when someone comes onto a message board and posts information that is inaccurate, ignorant, incomplete, or biased, they just beat the shit out of the poster. That's not to slam Rich or anyone. I definitely consider Rich and many others my friends. It's just the way we seem to handle things. It does kind of suck, and there's not much excuse for it. There ARE some good REASONS for it though. It quickly and strongly discourages people from posting crap. There's nothing more satisfying to a VFer to come to a message board and see a post full of Good Stuff. Conversely, there's nothing more irritating than to read conjecture, or vague and contradictory information. Bragging and trash talk are also strongly discouraged, because we don't want to be a.g.s.f.2.

My point is that VF tough love works. As tempting as it is to shoot off my mouth on stuff I thought I saw in a video or could have sworn this one guy did in a round three four years ago, I try to restrain myself. I put in disclaimer language when I'm not sure about what I'm saying, and I try to avoid conversations that go nowhere (witness any IRC "VF vs. TK" or "VF vs. SF" conversation). It was fun when I could get away with it, but now I have to think prior to posting. And that's what all the flaming is for. It's a harsh and nasty way to do things, but think of it like this: it's not directed at you (Machiavelli), it's directed at general bad posting habits. It's like sending your kid to military school to learn discipline and obedience. We all have had to eat that dripping cracker during the hazing ritual, right?

err, maybe that didn't make sense to most of you. It's for the best that way.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I like the quality of posts on this board a lot of the time, and there are guys who could post anything and never come across as nasty - remember BigCat? And witness Llan's style. I think some people on this board can take a hint from them. In turn, I and everyone else expect people like Machiavelli to think before they post and do it with a minimum of personal attacks, swearing, etc. If you're about to post something, and it doesn't bring info or something useful to the community, continue it in email or drop the thread.

Re: charging for content on web sites: There was a really, really good article on the cost of running a web site on shoryuken.com.... it has since been lost (apparently) in the remodeling of that site. Let's just put it this way, if you want a site without ads, and with multimedia, and fast FTP access for the people who want to download gigs and gigs of movies, I hope you make at least 10,000 dollars a month, because even ads don't pay squat anymore. Nobody *WANTS* to charge for content or harass you with ads. If a site owner could just throw it up on a FTP server and give you a login and password, they'd be just tickled pink. But it's never that simple. I think it's safe to say the owner of Segaweb isn't going to be buying a new car from the cover charge for premium memberships. If he drives around in a ferrari, I'm sure he has a job that paid for that. The site is more like a hobby, and he didn't HAVE to bother recording squat for anyone (certainly not anyone outside of himself and a circle of friends). While I personally wish it was free, I can see myself strolling around an electronics boutique and seeing a little video on the counter that says "Homebrew VF4 footage! 14.99" and paying it. Especially if there weren't many other resources for these things. Since I'm on the net a lot and I have a good connection and I know where to find this stuff, I don't pay it, but I don't resent him for charging for it.

Re: legal/copyright questions: Copyright is designed to protect people or a company from losing money. I doubt Sega would take someone to court over gushing previews and footage of a 80% complete game. Sega knows it's not losing money from coverage like that, if anything it's making money.
If sega had its own videos that they charged money for, and this guy was selling those, that would be different. And if the guy was panning the game based on footage of something incomplete, that might be different too. But as things stand, nobody's cutting into Sega's pie.

Okay, that's long enough.

Guest · Jul 15, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

Whining eh? Let me just tell you. When I first bought VF3tb I came here for direction. Little did I know when I tried to post or saw other newbies post my above statements came to light. So really in a way they did what you stated...They came out and basically said FUCK YOU what are you doing here? At least that is what it felt like. Not in those words but really...

So to me is sad that so much can be learn from the people here and this site. Yet so much arrogance surrounds this place. Heh well I don't care now 'cause what I do is basically just take the FAQs print em...and See ya...So whatever...

Machiavelli

Guest · Jul 15, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

aww, don't be pouty. There are people you can talk to who won't flame your ears off. My email is meshe@suscom-maine.net. Ask me anything you can't find in a FAQ, and I'll do my best to answer.

ice-9 · Jul 16, 2001

Re: I really can't believe this.

"Whiny bitch! Whiny bitch!" - Cameron Crazies

OK, back to work.

Adio · Jul 18, 2001

Golly.

Hey People. I've just joined this board after seeing those clips at segaweb. And while they weren't AMAZING they have filled me with a renewed hunger for all things VF. As someone posted before, its been ages since I seriously played VF3 and with VF4 just around the corner I can't wait. IMO I think Segaweb is giving us quantity over quality. the clips are quite short but I (living in the UK) had not seen VF4 in motion till this morning, so anything I can get is groovy. With regards to Vanessa Im not too fussed. the game will be released soon and we can make up our own minds then. I must say VF4 looks spot on! Sarah looks great! and is it just me or is Lion's nose really big?

Kudos to Segaweb for the feed and AM2 for the game!

Sincerely

Adio,

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