On the topic of good moves, 66P+K

Hey guys,

I got so much out of the responses to my questions about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, I'm hoping to mine the datastores again and hear some suggestions on the timing for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

When do you guys find are good times to throw them out? I've found that I have the most success with them after leading the opponent into a defensive game, when I end up with a little bit more time to lead into an attack.

Based on their timing, I assume that they're poorly used as a response to a whiff or blocked attack, but I'd love to hear otherwise. Any input on this?

Thanks!

|
+--Deathsushi

 

Rise from your graaaaave.
Sucks this topic went under the radar. + is one of the few moves that Brad can go into stances from with advantage on normal hit. This means that you can put your opponent in a nitaku situation on hit. You can read about moves that go into stances and what they beat out here:
http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/180619#Post180619
Once Brad puts an opponent in nitaku while going into stance he has a lot of options but I won't get into that here.

I'm going to talk about + and a few of it's options and applications.
You can delay the second for a pretty long time (mind games) and if your opponent attacks and that second connects you will get a really good stumble that is hard to break. Brad can connect with Ducking + while they stagger recover or you can go for a throw BUT if you time Ducking just right you can get a really nice launch.
This move is one of Brad's slower moves, it's the same speed as so you can apply it in the same way, best used when you've got 6-10 frames of advantage.

Another thing that makes this move a lot more interesting than all of Brad's other mids is that it's got a or half circular canned followup. You can catch an opponent who immediately attacks high or mid right after he succesfully evades +. It's a gamble but if your opponent has certain tendencies when he evades (such as evading up all the time or to Brad's stomach all the time) picking up on that can better your chances of connecting with a CH / putting them at -8 AND sideturned
If the attack out of this Brad's will net you a side crumple and you can combo with +->Ducking. You can even tack on an additional + on certain characters.
You could throw them but if they ETEG and deny you both throw and Brad's Slip Left/Right will nail them.

 

Apparently you can hitcheck and use its / derivative when you get a CH, though I've never tried. Another alternative that tony didn't mention was after you get the side turn. It's good to use if you don't think that your opponent will just defend low.

I think that your best option after CH is to enter SR and use SR . It will give them the CH effect where you can make a nice combo depending upon the character. His SL and SR both whiff unless your opponent is slow to break staggers and you delay them. Know that / SL is uninterruptable by elbows on guard. Your opponent will have to jab to interrupt you.

Even though this move has its advantages, I usually prefer using when I want to close distance. Be careful when using at close range because it's linear and tends to take Brad in deep as compared to his other moves. This means that liberal use of this move could result in a lot of CH side hits if your opponent is sharp. As long as you're careful with it though, this move should net you good results.

Another consideration for this move is after Brad's throw. It's good for keeping pressure on the opponent and will combo if the opponent doesn't recover. Also against Wolf from the closed foot position, you can make a nice combo with -> -> / (towards Wolf's raised leg I believe). It's good damage and leaves you in a favorable position for a heavy down attack follow up. Using will cause Brad to jump back to a safe distance if Wolf recovers while performing the pounce if he doesn't.

 

I'm really glad that you've revived this thread, tony. I've being toying around with this move a lot now that it's been put in the spotlight and I'm really happy with what I've discovered!

First off, you can indeed hitcheck to see if you've connected with the first part of the move before deciding whether to use the side turning high punch or not. I'm not sure if you need a counter hit, though I am sure that you can't hit check on normal hit against a crouching opponent.

Second, if the VF5 Dojo Mode is anything to go by, I was in error when I said that you couldn't connect with anything other than SR after counter hits. If the opponent struggles as quickly as possible, you can land SL . The CPU looked like it broke the stagger as quickly as possible and could guard again to be honest, so I don't know for sure if this is correct. If you think that your opponent will break the stagger, SL . If you think that he won't, SR . You need guess work here.

Both the two mid punches and the mid punch to side turning high punch are always a natural combo (NC) with the fastest timing. What makes this even better is that the first punch doesn't ever seem to jail on guard. You don't need to delay the second punch for them to be able to attempt an interrupt. More often than, not, you'll need to delay the second punch to bait them. But it's nice to know that they'll get hit if they're just spastic and input something while you perform it quickly.

This is a good move to work into your arsenal after jabbing (). On guard (+2), you'll typically want to mix up (of ), , and a throw. But a normal hit gives you +5, allowing you to stuff 11 frame jabs with it (Eileen, Pai, and Sarah have 10 frame jabs). Another consideration is mixing this in with since it is semicircular (catches evades towards Brad's front) and will stuff 12 frame jabs (Aoi, DS Vanessa, Wolf, and Jeffry) and low punches, as well as allowing you to combo on CH.

I tested this move against Eileen and Jacky in Dojo Mode and had them counter with an elbow after guarding the . I only tested this on the 1P side. I could beat out their elbows with the side turning punch delayed if I did so towards the background. If I did so towards the foreground I would be CH move often that not. So it's generally better to do the high turning punch towards the background, at least on the 1P side.

I previously made mention of the ability of / SL to beat out elbows on guard, but how it also loses to jabs. What I forgot to mention is that SL/SL will avoid jabs. So if you are facing an opponent who uses jabs to interrupt, using SL/SR will beat out their jabs and allow you to combo on CH. I also listed a Wolf combo using the side turning high punch version. If you want this combo to connect, you will need to delay the for quite a bit before proceeding. It also works against Wolf after from the open foot position.

It hasn't been mentioned yet that the high turning punch also sobers Shun by one drink point. This could be another consideration for using this move. Since it is a NC on NH, you might even want to use it for punishment at -16. Constantly putting them at risk of a side turned CH and whatever other tricks you may have can make Brad pretty scary. As for combos after , I think that Ducking will work on all characters. IIRC though, if you side turn towards the foreground on Wolf (and maybe Jeffry), is the best combo after the CH . With the former combo, you will have to dash in against some characters in order for it to work. Against characters where you have to dash in, the combo that tony posted above is more consistent. However, the combo does really nice damage when you land it.

 

Oops! It seems as though this move is 17 frames rather than 16 frames like I originally thought. So your opponent must have a jab speed of 12 frames in order for to stuff it at +5.

I wish that I could have edited my last post in time.

 

Libertine that last big post you did was really good. I tried that SR and it worked like a charm. I don't think that you can trust the cpu's fastest stagger recovery setting. I've played players who can stagger recover faster than the that so I don't think that SL is guaranteed against an opponent who stagger recovers very well.

That said, most opponents will eat that SR for sure while they stagger recover (specially online XD) and it leads to really nice damage when followed by + Ducking

A nice way to setup + is after a knockdown. Time + so that it whiffs but the that you put your opponent in a nitaku situation with the canned followups or / and throw/ pressure.
Your opponent will have to choose between a)attacking and eating the that mid which staggers b)evading and getting hit with / or risk getting thrown.
The possibilities are huge bc you can choose to end the string at any time and freestyle anything into the mix. + , throw, , , , OM /throw, etc.

 

You need +6 because of the buffering. Better late than never to correct this I suppose.