Osama bin Laden Killed In Pakistan

Discussion in 'General' started by Krafty Matt, May 1, 2011.

  1. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Why?
     
  2. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    No it doesn't make sense. Again you display your misunderstanding of what science is. Again you're talking about judgments made by people rather than science itself. Science doesn't make such distinctions, people and society do.

    Science can only be looked at in abstract terms, because it IS abstract (It's an abstract noun- durrrr). If something follows the scientific method, possibility of bias should be eliminated from the experiment. All science does is produce facts and new knowledge. People applying their own bias to these facts doesn't make science any less neutral.

    And by your logic in the post i'm quoting, because words can be used to change opinions and influence people, and society will look down you because you're illiterate, language is biased?

    As i've said, you're confusing science with what people do and don't do with knowledge. Disappointing.
     
  3. MAtteoJHDY

    MAtteoJHDY Well-Known Member

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And by your logic in the post i'm quoting, because words can be used to change opinions and influence people, and society will look down you because you're illiterate, language is biased? </div></div>

    Yes, language is biased.

    Languages are not equals, English being dominant, and even within the English language itself there is a bias. academics use academic language to exclude those who dont know the jargon. literary tradition holds its canons of what good English is.

    Language in its concreteness is never neutral, because dialogue takes place among people who are never on the same plane. when you go for a job interview, you are not just using language neutrally, you have to conform to the language requirements for the job. those who dont know the specific terms of the discourse, they could be great minds but they would not get the position.
     
  4. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    oh.
    my.
    god.
    stop.
     
  5. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    Again, you're speaking about a judgment on something, rather than the thing itself. Continuing on this line of logic, Spoons are bias, because i am more likely to use them to eat my cereal every day than forks?
     
  6. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

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    Not really Osama-related, but I thought I'd chime in on the whole science bit

    sorry if i go on a bit ^__^;;;

    Not claiming anything big, but I'd consider myself a 'scientist' I guess. Been studying in college for awhile at least.

    I always view the broad field of 'science' as a tool, much like a hammer or screwdriver. Similar to a hammer, science has NO inherit agenda -- much like a hammer can't get up on its own to build a house, neither can science direct human morality or any other likewise substantial consciousness. All science itself does is explain phenomenon through observation and experimentation. That's it. Look up the 'scientific process', which is the backbone of ALL sciences

    Speaking still on tools, what agenda the USER using the tool has is a totally different story. 1 carpenter can use a hammer to repair a roof, while another can use that same hammer to critically injure someone by busting them in the side of the face with it. The hammer itself can't manipulate you to doing either. If you want to take it further, you can say that the 2nd felonious carpenter is 'misusing' the hammer, as it the result is clearly not the intention it was meant for when it was created.

    Back to science, its the same thing. People use as a tool to make sense of the world around us, or to solve particular problems everyday. That's what it was created to do. People also use science as a tool for political purposes or personal gain, as justification for wayword actions, and even as a reason to hurt others. Science itself has no agenda.


    Happy_friend:

    thank you for the heads up on the potentially bogus quote. Also, I don't particularly agree with your thoughts on religion, but I respect your view none-the-less ^_____^
     
  7. sanjuroAKIRA

    sanjuroAKIRA Well-Known Member

    SEAL Team VI

    [​IMG]

    here to take out this thread.
     
  8. Happy_Friend

    Happy_Friend Well-Known Member

    Smug Asshole Magician Makes Shit Up

    Also, my thoughts on religion are one thing and I don't exactly know what those thoughts are. What I was referring to, maybe unclearly, was the misuse of religion and other identity issues to disguise material exploitation.

    Elites get working-class white black people to distrust each other and prevent common cause. Or the Wall Street/Pentagon nexus gets us to believe that we are in the Mideast because the Muslims hate our freedom and our Jesus, while in fact we are subjecting Muslim peoples to brutal rule by puppet dictators who provide us with oil on good terms.

    Anyway, you can agree or not with all that or not... But I don't really have a lot to say about religion except that Mormons are weird.
     
  9. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    dude. did you read that article? I don't get the Jillette hate.
     
  10. Slide

    Slide Well-Known Member

    What the fuck are you attacking him for when he just asked why and nothing else?

    Am I missing something?
     
  11. Happy_Friend

    Happy_Friend Well-Known Member

    All of the things you listed about Ron Paul are true and would be good things to do. You leave out that RP is rube who has nutty libertarian views on things like social security, the minimum wage, financial regulation, government food and safety inspections.

    I am not even saying that it wouldn't be better to have him in charge, but his libertarian views are only a few degrees removed from the views of the neoliberal global imperialists he opposes. The main difference is that the imperialists are smart enough to recognize that it takes a military apparatus to makes populations live under capitalist domination.
     
  12. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

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    1) Marly when I choose to be succinct I use mathematics

    2) Feyerabend, Barazun, Rollins, Aronwitz, and Alan Watts
    are like 2 dimensional beings criticizing a 3 dimensional
    concept (you are in that category)

    Sadly your brand of philosophy is both recursive and inductive and doesn't move man in any direction. You don't have any new questions or new answers just the same -ole- round the mulberry bush. Say what you want about the scientific method at least it has a vector [​IMG]

    sorry signia F=m/a (was a typo)
     
  13. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    Really? In a discussion with someone who doubts the neutrality of science you'd use Maths to be succinct?Wouldn't that just lead to more confusion? Or are you just trying to be smart?

    To be clear this isn't hostility. I have a genuine interest as to how you'd do this without making a fool of yourself and at the same time be understood. [​IMG]
     
  14. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

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    1) I didn't say I would try to be succinct with someone ho doubts the neutrality of science [​IMG]

    2) And if my recent memory serves me correctly, non of the
    philosophers, past or present, non of thinkers, past
    or present, non of the epistemologists (not that there different from philosophers) past or present that I've read
    are or were succinct in anything they wrote [​IMG]

    brevity and succinctness don't seem to be properties of those that ponder the serious questions of life, religion, and science.

    My assertion was that when I choose to be succinct I use mathematics. A typical example is when I submit papers to journals or conferences. The papers are typically 6 to 15 pages depending on the journal and conference, and to present
    my research in the most unambiguous and efficient fashion I tend to use mathematics most of the time.


    Speaking of scientific method being in question, do you do any science at all? or are you just a spectator? I participate in the scientific method daily or almost daily. So I'm always curious when someone calls it into question [​IMG]

    And it is reasonable without stretching too much to bring up science and post modernistic philosophical thought in a discussion about Osama bin Laden's assassination because its precisely his world view and the world view of his fanatic radical fundamentalists that have significant segments of humanity at war right now.

    It is entirely possible, that world without ISLAM, JUDAISM, and CHRISTIANITY or related derivatives would be a world without war. Who knows maybe the death of Osama bin Laden, might mark the turning point. Maybe with some of the other socio-economic upheavals in the middle east and Africa we might be slowly creeping towards a new dawn.
     
  15. Happy_Friend

    Happy_Friend Well-Known Member

    Examples? Where is this significant segment of humanity that is at war b/c of bin laden's worldview?
     
  16. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    These just keep on coming.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. ^
    Best Post so far. I wonder were you can get these kind of pictures (unless you made them yourself).
     
  18. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    It came from Reddit.com. It's an amazing site for anyone that doesn't already frequent it.

    The okay face just cracks me up every time.
     
  19. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    Correct. Reddit has a lot of good stuff.
     
  20. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

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    There is a Fox News logo in lower-left corner. I do not even feel like watching it. The amount of research I'd want to do afterwards is a deterrent.

    I recently saw an article where Canada won't even allow the station to broadcast on their airwaves. To paraphrase: Fox presents opinion as fact.
     

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