Pai help... punishing and counters?

For all the Pai vet's out there I could really use some help. After repeatedly getting my ass handed to me I realize where I need help to most, at least where to start.

When I am able to block some of the bigger swinging kicks, I don't know what the best move is to punish my opponent for swinging that hard. What would you guys recommend?


Also, when fighting a masher I seem to get out jabbed consistently. Yes I know I suck but what are some good ways to get around their mashing? I can often catch their punch, put them on the ground and down strike them but that is if I am lucky enough to guess where they were coming from and once they get back up I seem to be back in the guessing game. I also have tried low jab to stop their flailing but I also seem to get out jabbed on the next hit. What should I follow the low jab up with? Right now I I have the habit of going for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in hopes of launching them for a combo but that is incredibly rare I get that to work. Or I'll /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and I either get out jabbed or blocked and punished.

Also, in VF4 I was able to consistenly recover, has the timing changed in VF5 ver C? I can't seem to get it right and I am sick of being hit by down attacks when I used to be able to punished them really easily. I woud roll to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and my opponent would get fuzzy then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif . I seem to have lost the ability to do this in 5 since I can't get the recovery right.

Finally, against better players I seem to fair a little better but I wanted to ask what you guys thought of this tactic. Is it really see through or a decent ploy? When in close I /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to either /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif depending on my opponent. What do you think? Help please!

 

^ this does not describe me ^

That being said:

Stopping their jab: Your jab will stop any jab in the game if you have advantage. Since that doesnt seem to be working for you, abuse /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to sabaki their jabs until they wise up.

Following up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: As long as your /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif hits, what's happening to stop your /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif? throw / mid mixup should work ok for you here.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: if they're /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to beat you, mix /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

Fall recovery: assuming you're talking online, the timing is all jacked up for me too.

Reversing after unsafe moves are blocked: That's great if it's working for you, but for both of the moves you listed, I'm pretty sure faster punishment is guaranteed whether you do a reversal or not.

 

When I go for a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after a low jab I always seem to get hit beofre I can land it. Am I perhaps inputing it too slowly?

Any advice of a good punich move after I block a big swinging kick?

 

you're either inputting it too slowly, or not hitting with the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. If you do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as fast as possible, as long as the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif hits, the scoop should beat /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or slower; on counterhit, it should beat even fastest jabs.



Pai's normal hit punishers aren't that great:

http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?i...teed_punishment

 

Why would you guard cancel the second string? It would only make a difference on kick moves, unless I'm very mitaken. Unnecessary inputs would be detrimental

 

No, unnecessary inputs are not detrimental, because they don't actually take up any frames (you're pushing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif before the punch recovers), they just clear the buffer.

I say get in the habit of doing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif whenever all you want is a single jab, regardless of what move you're going to do after it.

 

Thanks for the help KOD, I am going to give it a try. Up for any friendly matches?

Of course any other input people would like to include I wouldn't be upset.

 

Yeah, sure, add my gamertag KoD VFDC. I'm not on that often, but I guarantee you'll get enough lag to practice some laggy /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Handy! I was fighting this dude playing Brad that would *not* stop /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Being the total newb that I am, I was like, "Oh, I'll try dodg- argh! Maybe I can swe- ARGH!"

 

I'll help you beat mashers!

Firstly, in addition to the things people have mentioned so far, the easiest way to beat jabs are with low attacks. Just do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif then hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif to switch into Bokutai stance. If the guy is truly a masher, then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif from Bokutai will work every time. (Then pounce on them, because they won't recover.) If they manage to start blocking low, just hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif from Bokutai and you'll do a nice safe mid-jab. Or if you like to be unsafe /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will launch low-blockers.

Or you could just do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. If the guy is truly a masher this will not work way too often but if he does block it he won't know how to punish it effectively.


Against /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or any predicted low attack for that matter, don't forget your /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif if you like to be one frame faster. Do not do the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif unless you know the kicks are going to hit.

This move will float over any low move and give you an advantage on hit. It's also safe on block, though you'll be at a slight disadvantage.


/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is also an excellent move to just throw out randomly against mashers. It's safe against /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and jabs, unless you're trying to use it when you're at a large disadvantage. (Why would you do that?) It'll also hit crouching opponents if you're abusing low attacks. While not technically safe on block, the number of moves that can punish you are small. You can "test" your opponent with this move, seeing if he can punish it or not.

 

Use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif not /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif because the former is one frame faster. And yes, it is a very good move.

 

OK, last night I lost 25 but won 25 as well so I would say I am fairing much better than my night before of +20 - 40. KOD, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif works so well!!!! That and my timing for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif was a little slow because I was connecting with much more frequency last night.

I am still having troubles recovering online and it kills me. That and some low flailing Lion's and Lei's were problematic. I also just got out played by some great players who just owned me.

Here's a quick question for anyone however, what's the counter throw command against Goh's headlocl? I tried /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif but neither seemed to work. Or am I maybe jsut timing one of them incorrectly?

 

I use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for my flip kicks the most. Is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif still a better option? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif seems really fast.

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is slower, less safe, does less damage than, and doesn't knock down like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. What /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has going for it is 7 hit frames, so its good for crushing rising attacks. What /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif has going for it is that it doesn't clash throws (the reason why you would use it from disadvantage).

If you're just trying to beat lowp and jab from advantage, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is safer, faster, and comparable or better damage than either of those options. The scoop is more rewarding than either if you're getting sabaki'ed out of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

As for how to escape throws, look at the movelists - they show escapes for even the "weird" stuff like vanessa's holds, brad's clinch, and goh's tsukami grab.

 

Woo Hoo! I have a winning record on XBOX Live! Thanks for help KoD and others. Currently I am 2nd Dan with a 90 and 81 record. Not bad considering I was 20 losses higher than wins a few days ago.

 

i'm new to vf. what are the exact properties of Pai's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and what are some good options when I connect with it. This game is pretty fun. Thanks

 

Look at the movelist for the properties:

http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?ver=5c&chara=pai

When it sabakis something, just push P to do the canned followup. You still have advantage afterwards, but they're pushed fairly far away.

 

Hey guys, another Pai user in need of help here. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif I am not new to Pai, but I am to VF5. Last night, my first time on XBL, I came across this Goh player several times whose only strategy was to do this massive scoop kick, which I am doomed if I get hit with and stunned when I block it, both leading to massive punishement doled out by the pale one. It looked like a mid but I could not reverse it even when I knew it was coming. (which was every chance he got) Can this be reversed? If not, how the heck to I get out of that vicious cycle of kick abuse?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Go through his command list in the dojo (its really short) and figure out which kick it is first.

He's got a kick that he can do a hit throw from on guard, but I don't think he has any kicks that stagger or give advantage on guard.

 

He's probably talking about 9k+g. It's a high attack which you can duck under. Duck and throw or hit him out of it with a jab > combo cause it's a slow move. You can also launch him if you're quick enough. Normally Goh's BT after it hits and normally does PK or P+K from BT afterwards. He's even on guard of it, not adv. But his P is 11 frames. Something like 1kk might work well here.