Pai Q&A thread

I got a bunch of random questions and I noticed Pai forum does not have a general question & answer thread. Now it does.

1. After 33P+G, dash BT K vs Taka is there really nothing better than 9KK after? 6K+G seems to miss on him and I feel like I should be able to hit him with something else here.

2. What does hakkeshou sabaki? I think it's HP, HE, MP, EL, but I haven't actually tested. Is that it?

3. What's recommended after Pai's reversals if the opponent ends up next to a wall? I'm just going with 9KK W! 466P+K.
Also some of them are +15, some are +16 and one is +13 ST. Do these differences allow you any extra option ever (like next to wall or vs Taka or something)?

4. Is there any reason to ever use 3P+G instead of 33P+G? The only thing I figured was that vs Taka you can connect 3KPP on him afterwards. This can cause a wallstagger but it's easy to escape. Is there anything going on with this move?

5. What's the frames of Pai 3P,K~2 on block, hit and CH?

I guess that's it for now.

 

1. I havent test >dash BT against Taka for a long long time but i remember the time when i was testing it seems the best as ender. So i dont think you can do better combo but, against taka after >BT I use moves that can give me nice meaty oki game,specific to taka . Some examples here:
1) > BT > >meaty on side +12 guaranteed or
2) > BT > Bokutai,Bokutai as meaty
3) > BT > >BT as meaty.
Im sure you can find even more.

2. Hakkeshou sabaki HP,MP,HE and Elbow.. Like you said


3. After Pai's reversals is the most common move and next to wall i usually do W! WS. Against elbows and knees you get +15 or +16 so you can do launcher,sometimes the can't connect depending of char's hitboxes,but im sure against almost all elbows and knees in closed stance you get it. Also that one with +13 iirc when u reversal mid right kick if the opponent doesnt hold you can do > Backthrow > >. Is guaranteed when opponent doesnt hold.


4. About , i dont use it that much but it would be good only for switching side to put your opponent near to the wall or for ringout opportunity. > . And yeah, like you said against Taka is guaranteed afterwards. i cant think something better about this move.


5. charge on block is -3 , on NH -2 and on CH +9.

 

Nice thread you made Combolammas. We should have created this long ago.

 

A quick question about one of Pai's moves, sorry I don't know the input but it's her shoulder move. It crumples on side turn even on normal hit. My question is, up to what frame advantage is this possible for her to get the NH side crumple? I ask this because dojo does not tell you info on advantage/disadvantage if you sidestep a move u just like, gotta know from, practice. Like for example I KNOW It's not possible after evading faster moves like , , etc. but

 

466P+K

Look at the total frames of a move you wish to evade and reduce 41 (23f evade + 17f 466P+K + 1 because of dash input in the move) and the amount of disadvantage you are in when starting evade. For example you can use it to punish Goh 6K (48 total) when evading from -7 or less.

 

I have another question regarding 466P+K it is something I had on my mind for some time.
Do this in dojo set the dummy to P after a block and get your P blocked and follow it up with 466 P+K. It will beat the P clean every time if you do it right. P should beat it even at -2 but it doesn't. If I put myself at a slight disadvantage it loses to standing P but it seems to me like the beginning of the start up of the move low profiles under highs slightly. It isn't like 46P+K that naturally goes under all obvious highs. It seems to me that it only works when Pai has plus frames or is neutral. This is something I knew of for a very long time but never bothered to look into seriously since you don't want to be throwing out 466P+K unless you are close to the wall or in a side turn hit situation.

What do you think about this if you saw this happen before yourself in dojo.

 

In watching some Pai footage recently, I don't really see Hakkeshou get used much. Any idea on why? Is it too linear? Tough to setup/utilize? The P and P+G options out of it seem pretty nice to me. Or just canceling out of it and going for something else.

 

Found this awhile ago. Interesting.
I'm getting ideas all of a sudden.

 

Hakkeshou has a delay before Pai can do followups. Against players with good reaction they can interrupt with 2p or even worse, launch her. Her sabaki off Hakkeshou is probably quick enough to reverse launchers but not 2p nor kick/knee launchers so against certain characters doing this RAW might get her killed

And the return on P and P+G may not be that high to worth the risk

 

Thanks SlowCast, that was kind of my concern trying her more and looking at frame data. I've tried to use it on oki but that too seems risky.

 

Okay Pai players

So I'm very much a Xiaoyu kind of guy in Tekken...I just love Xiaoyu's AOP and while rising punishes....always have ever since Tekken 3.

In VF, I usually stick with Sarah but after being with Xiaoyu for so long, I started thinking I should really try to learn Pai. I know Pai and Xiaoyu have similarities in their move set but still, the games are largely different to play.

How far do the similarities between the two go?

For instance, if I block a low in VF, can I punish said low with a while rising P+K?

I'm curious to know coming from Xiaoyu, am I gonna have too many issues picking up Pai or are some things gonna come easier than expected?

I started playing with her today and captured some footage of my endeavors. I'm not the greatest VF player so the footage probably isn't great, but here is some of that footage I captured today while playing with her trying to get a feel for her.

Maybe someone can give some advice in general? I'm still struggling with movement in VF. Coming from Tekken where it's all about quick dashing in and out to try and lure the other player, I still have a lot of troubles trying to lure people in VF. So any advice would be appreciated.









I really like VF5 US and what I've played of it, but yeah, going back to a guard button is tough to get my head wrapped around and I have to retrain myself after playing SO much Tekken 7 and getting used to movement in that game.

 

@danmann861 Akai gave some good Pai specific advice, but I wanted to answer a question coming from VF and also playing Ling (though I changed mains after Tekken 5DR to Kazuya because too many moves).

If you treat VF movement like staircase cancels in old Tekken games (I think it's called sidestep cancels now?) you'll have better movement. backdash, cancel with sidestep and repeat. Get used to doing it in all 4 directions.

Also, Pai has some stance transitions that help with her movement. You can do her 4P+K+G stance followed by 11 to move a bit. Backturn also has a bit of evasive properties to it.
Get used to using bokutai to cause highs and some mids to whiff. That helps a ton. Also, her 66P+K and 66K+G are decent ways to move, though unsafe to just throw out there yolo.

She has a really good crouch dash though and you can get the counter hit scoop as Akai mentioned out of it which is good.

As for some other moves you will need, 3P+K is a VERY fast (12f) abare "get off me" tool. I stick it out once in a while since you can't duck it as it's a mid, especially against characters like Eileen, Brad, or LeiFei where they have a lot of buttons to press. Just be aware of sabakis from Lei Fei.

2K+G is a great low, CH combos to 9KK and it's one of like 3 lows in the game that are + on hit, so it's really good.

4K+G will prevent people from evading you and it's super good.

Use 9K (not 9KK) as a poke/pressure setup. Even though you don't have the frames for it, you can use it to set up things like throws.

46K+G and 4P are really good mids that are + on block so you can start pressure with these. She has a few more, but its' 9am and I can't think of them all right now, but Pai has maybe more + on block moves than anyone in the game?? She has like 5 including . The two I mentioned though are +4, which are the strongest. P+K is a +1 on block but it's good because of the crouch.