Discussion in 'The Vault' started by Chanchai, Feb 15, 2001.

  1. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Is there anything to say about Pai in terms of higher level playing?

    I guess my only resources in terms of anything documented would be Kris Amico's translation of the Pai tape, some of his stuff, combo lists, ura lists, newsgroup archives, counter lists, and move lists.

    Hmm, a lot of information there. But I'm more curious about how people perceive her now. Andy seemed to sort of give up to some extent on focusing purely on Pai. I think I recall him saying something along the lines that after awhile, it just gets extremely difficult to use her against very good opponents. I think Pai was probably one of the only character which Shota seemed to not mention having an expert/master player for (US and Japan). Hmm, only two people I can think of when I hear Pai in terms of playing well and that's Jan and Andy (John Choi as well, but according to Clopin, it's pretty much a derivative of Jan's Pai).

    Were there any others that devoted a lot of attention to Pai? Is Pai just considered so intuitive she's easy to use, but very hard to master (I'm assuming her strongpoints don't have the power or maximizing capabilities that other characters tend to have). Is she just a poke-fest without carry-over power? Didn't someone even say she has "no combos?"

  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    Is it just me, or does anyone else find the VF3 portrait of Pai (the screen that pops up between matches/rounds) really ugly after having seen the VF4 CG Pai? By ugly, I don't mean extremely unattractive, but more from an aesthetic/artistic point of view.

    Go on, take a good look at the VF3 portrait again and tell me you don't find it disturbing! :)
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Actually I think, VF3 Pai looks way better, VF4 CG of Pai looks like shes meaner and more like a namco character...whats up with those clothes. Pai's White outfit is the one I play with. In regards to High Level play with Pai, yeah Jan Pai may have been one to rave about a while ago but thats Years ago...I would mash his pai im sure of it (well pretty sure, my fault is not playing another really good going under assumption that he stopped playing somewhere between the 2nd and third year of VF3) today...since it is a few years later...Anyhow if I play someone who has never played my pai before or better yet a good pai, I have a distinct advantage over my opponent...easily...its like never playing a rushing Lau you have no idea how to deal with it or what openings you have its just not obvious...

  4. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    I have to agree that aesthetically, the new VF4 pic of Pai is a huge improvement. Before the VF4 picture, I had a hard time including Pai as one the VF 'chicks'. ;)


    <font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>
  5. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    I also agree. The VF4 portrait looks better thatn vf3. Where the fuk do people get shit like, " they look like characters from TEKKEN??" I'd really like to hear people's rationale for why they think it looks like tekken. I mean Pai's light blue/white uniform (player 1) from vf3 looks cool and traditional and all (vf style), but then why dont people say that the second player uniform (blue and yellow with hat) looks like tekken as well? Or Kage's second player uniform (the disco reflective pants) - shouldn't they bitch about that not being consistent with "vf style"? Expectations are so high that people are LOOKING for any little reason to say that VF4 will end up sucking big time.

    Looks like ass

    <font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

    <font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>
  6. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Pai is not really a "combo character" although she does have her fair share. At high levels of play Pai is known more for her ura/okizeme, inashi and traps resulting from her being able to get behind your back.

    There are many dedicated Pai players in Japan, but most of them are women. In fact, in Maximum Battle for Japan the overall second place winner was a female Pai player.

  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    For me the most beautiful Pai I saw was on the VF3 cg portrait series(Pai). there you have differnt CG models of Pai(sometimes mixed with digitalized backgrounds).
    I especially like the Picture were pai is having an icecream.

  8. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    My impression was Andy was the only 'pai' player in the US.
    Cause that's all I see him play. That or Jacky.

    anyway...I think the vf4 pai looks hot...and yes, I never liked the vf3 potrait of Pai.

    I like the vf4 lau too...looks like a mean old if he's finally at where he wants to be.

    Hmmm imagine sarah.

    and I've tired playing pai, with no success. In fact, the only time I used pai was against myke, after sufferring from the hop splash moutain, I had to use pai to hop n throw him back hahahahahahahahahaha

    Followed by my usual comments( got ya...see me FAST LEARNER) and mad crowds laughter by shun, followed by a snigger by Doomboy, follwed by a brutual killing by the hands of myke.

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'
  9. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Well-Known Member

    Okay Okay, I'll bite :p

    I played Pai all thru VF2, where she was mostly a pecking character and overall one of the weaker ones.

    In VF3, however, I found that she was nicely powered up - and that was before I discovered Inashi and mastered the oki-zeme game.

    I think she can hold up against the strongest competition from the other characters - tho she will be an underdog against some. IMO, the character rankings in VF3ob are like this: Jacky, Kage, Lau, Wolf, Akira, Pai (.. then it gets hazy). Akira is perhaps a bit of a wildcard, but in practicality, I don't think he's a favorite to win a tourney among equal (very high level) competition.

    Now the kinky thing in the ob version is that Pai's Inashi works extremely well against exactly those characters (save Wolf), and esp. Lau and Akira. This is however made up for somewhat by her biggest weakness: massive floatage susceptibleness - which esp. Lau and Akira will take advantage of ;)

    Pai has a great array of moves - almost none of her moves are useless or even weak; things like standing crescent and forward kickflip are probably the only two moves I almost never use in a "serious game" (on purpose) :) - not that I've had any of those for like 3 years.

    Her punch combos, sidekick, sweeps, throws and extremely high priority moves (scissorkicks & ff+P(K)) give her all she needs to take any opponent down. Spice that up with some decent weird moves like her b+P, d_F+P, f+K+G and surprisingly decent b/d+P, and a really evil oki-zeme ability with her single-scissor-kick hop-over-lying-opponent, and you have what you need to play a very strong and unpredictable game with both aggresive and machi styles.

    For some reason, she never was a favourite among VF players. I've seen more (and stronger) Sarah players than Pai players, which is really sad, given that Sarah is boring as hell to play against, and probably with.

    All this being said, I'm rusty as hell by now, and haven't met any opposition on jap controls (which I need to do interesting and strong stuff) other than my sparring partner here in Copenhagen for, like, years. *sigh*

    Still, I'd be willing to bet that I can hold my own (win more than 50%) against anyone with any character in the Western world (save a certain chap from London) using Pai :)

    (note: in tb, her inashi's been toned down a lot, which makes her a lot weaker against strong aggresive players)

    - Jan

    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Gnug315 on 2/18/01 03:04 PM.</FONT></P>
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Still, I'd be willing to bet that I can hold my own (win more than 50%) against anyone with any character in the Western world (save a certain chap from London) using Pai :)

    You must be nuts to say something like this....

    Win more than 50% with any character while being A) rusty and B) not playing for like a 3 years....

    I think not.

    Jason used to speak so highly of your Pai, which may have been great way back when...but I highly doubt your Pai would hold any weight against most of the western US players...

    At this moment in VF time we are playing some of the best VF in anticipation of VF4 than we ever have...

  11. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Well-Known Member

    Most of the A) Rusty point would go away in a very short time, since the B) is that I haven't played a _serious_ game for like 3 years :)

    My unserious games are just as high level as my serious ones, I just don't do *anything* to secure a win (like I might in the tourney I played in 3 years ago).

    I've played tons in the last three years.

    But sure, you're right, it's nuts to claim such a thing, esp. having not even played any of the NY'ers or most of the NA players.

    One of the (perhaps distateful) characteristics of a toplevel player is that he considers himself the best. Perhaps a trait a lot more than one of us shares :)

    And what's more, the fact that I'm willing to bet on it doesn't make it 100% sure it's so :)

    - Jan
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is exactly why your comment made me so annoyed...

    I work quite hard to win with pai...its very very hard to win against high level opponents with her...extremely...

    And considering we are all in our 4th/5th year of playing VF consistently...we can see things that would otherwise be hard for someone not playing for a long period of time to see...

    I realize that you were probably a great player a while back but the lack of competition would seriously hinder your gameplay...50% is unbelievable high....

  13. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    i just think andy is a little annoyed that someone out there could win with pai when he finally decided he could not, and switched to jacky.
  14. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Well-Known Member

    Having played countless thousands of games with Pai I think I can arguably say that I've worked extremely hard with her also.

    After playing the London tourney in june '97, I continued playing daily for about 1½-2 years.. that's almost 3 years total of daily VF3 playing (nowadays it's only like 2-4 times a month, sigh). I think I got to the point where I know a lot about what's possible in the game, even tho there was obviously still tons left for me to perfect.

    50% isn't unbelievably high. 95% would be. I just think I could take anyone in a best of X matches, 'tis all. I mean no disrespect :)

    Ofcourse I would be a helluva lot better if I had played 4 years nonstop against the very best competition. I'm nowhere near as good as I might have been. Unfortunately, I don't live in Japan.

    I'm sure you guys over there are doing stuff I haven't thought of/developed. I also think it's likely that I've gone thru stages with stuff that you guys have yet to discover - esp. with Pai, who really isn't so hard to win with against high level opponents with her as you say IMO :)

    As a matter of curiosity, I heard the chap from London went to Japan for some months and played the top level competition there for a while... and was just slightly under 50% against the very best (and crushing the rest as he is prone to do). Meaning, he was up there among the best. Of Japan. I think in most ppl's opinion, I was about his strength back then, tho he came out on top in the tourney - and I'm sure we both got a lot better since.

    IN ANY CASE, wtf are we discussing? lol :)

    Btw, I think I saw a vid of Adam's Akira which looked good a while back. It brought back some fun memories. I'd love to play someone like that again.

    - Jan
  15. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Well-Known Member

    LOL!!! Arrrrgh nooooooo, not Jerky! So frigging cheap, he is. Damn shame, I loved him in VF2, and he's fun to play in VF3 also - but he's just toooo easy to use effectively. He was banned from being by the best players in the second London tourney, by popular consent.
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Winning with pai is possible, and in some cases easy, but it requires more work, you see in the same situation say a blocked low move, I could either sidekick stagger, or elblow heelkick with Jacky. I understand in that situation what the best option to use is...of course a mid move to stagger...however elbow heelkick pounce for guaranteed damage is a heck of alot easier than forcing the sidekick stagger guessing game... At this point I expect a good player to struggle so fast I cant hit them with ANY move..I cant even PPP after a sidekick stagger. So I have to play a guessing games between grabs or if they are going to struggle fast enough...Jacky gives me more guaranteed damage moves...


  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You know the reason why I say this is because, I remember my pai ability from maybe say two/three years back...while it was good, and I was willing to wager I had the best pai in the US (since by then we'd known about all the other N/A VF'ers and Canadian VF'ers and there were no other pai players). However since two or three years ago, my pai has improved nearly 100% each year and in line with the other players. I developed things like EDTE, AttackTE, all types of techniques to get better. I know if I played any of the N/A players with 100% of ther skill from two or three years ago I would win 80-90% of the matches we play. Like you we also play lots of people who have played in Japan, (The NY crew from two years ago had 5 Japanese players from Japan) Masahiro/Tetsuo/Two other guys and including Hiro our Japanese VF'er who goes their regularly.

  18. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Well-Known Member

    Yes, it requires more work than Jacky. Damn Jacky to hell :p

    But it's still no problem.

    After blocked low move ... low throw them? If you think they'll try and interrupt you, do a double scissorkick or kickflip. If it's a char with a lowthrow, do an inashi to have them whiff the lowthrow escape attempt while remaining close (can also just stand there, but the Inashi will also work if they try things like P interrupt, elbow, palm or standing throw instead), and then do a standing throw. ff+P(K) will work against *anything but* someone who tries to stand up and block in that scenario. Did you know that after you do a hopping double overhead hammer-punch thing against a rising opponent, and it is blocked, Pai's ff+P will interrupt basically any counter attack? When ppl stop trying to interrupt your ff+P, you have them conditioned to eat whatever other throw or attack you feel like using.

    After a sidekick stagger you have such a large slew of options to choose between, the guessing game is majorly to your advantage: Throw them. If they try and P you out of that, scissorkick, sweep or Inashi. More p's, or d/f+Pp combos are good. Basically a sidekick-stagger with Pai is almost as good at Jerky's guaranteed ZZZ-elbow-heelkick-pounce crap, and her sidekick has some advantages over Jerky's elbow also. (such as not being Inashi'able ;)

    Just crush em man! Make them cry! Pai 0wnz!!
  19. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    so, in essence, you are saying you are not a good enough player to play pai - only good enough to play jacky, who is a (much) easier character?

    am i wrong?
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    if you look at your description thats exactly what I have to list like 5 options you have...with jacky simply elbow heelkick pounce...easy as that...of course I have tons of options with pai...lots...but do they take guaranteed damage no...and if I miss....can I get 50% of my life off...very easily...with jacky theres no chance of I missing after an elbow heelkick...can you screw up a stagger situation yes you the elbow heelkick is just much much easier, thats all I was trying to describe...

    Low throws are great by the way I use them quite often...a big part of my game...


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