Pai's d/f+pg, k(g), p+g

In the discussion below, both Jeff and Mike are right in saying that this combo is guarenteed and iffy. Guaranteed because if your opponent doesn't struggle meaningfully, the back throw is guaranteed. Iffy because if they're decent strugglers, the throw will never work...

I don't know for sure, because I don't play against Taka's enough to really say, but this sequence doesn't seem to work against him very well. It might be that the few times I've tried it on Taka, it happened that Rich or whoever was playing struggled better than usual.

Also, I'd like to point out that the follow-ups to Pai's backthrow are slightly different than her stumble throw... mainly because you cannot struggle to reduce "stumbling" time with the backthrow. So follow-ups, such as the b+kg are guaranteed, and quick dash k (I believe, I need to check on that) are guaranteed. Which means against Aoi this is a really cute combo, because d/f+pg, k(g), p+g, dash, k, k, pppd+k is guarenteed if your opponent doesn't struggle after the high cartwheel.

At the same time, I wonder if throws aren't guaranteed within a precise 1 frame window, between the opponent getting out of the "stumbling" and before they can attack. I'm sure Mike knows more about this. But when I feel that I've CD, f+pg properly and tightly after the backthrow, I've never had it interrupted.

-Jason

 

->d/f P+G

I don't know for sure but i don't think you can struggle out of KG backthrow, cuz this is not a stumble throw, oppt just can't move until 10 frames are over after the throw. Remember inputing KG + P+G without any misses ARE pretty difficult, but you don't have to get it to work everytime, as long as you let your oppt knows that they have no other options other than TT attacks in hope of you messed up, your goal is met.

->Backthrow stumble

I think there is no way to get a perfect throw after it cuz during the entire time your oppt is getting up he is in "stumble" status. As we all know throws are not possible during stumble frames. After stumble is over your oppt can move immediately therefore there are no "pure" ^^; rigour frame at all during the entire sequence. Perhaps it is similar to not being able to get guranteed throw after Akira's stumble trip. It would prolly feel guranteed if you time it precisely after and your oppt paused for just a very brief moment (perhaps still stuck in the yomi process of what Pai wanna do after CD ^^).

This is just my assumption and i have no document to back it up

 

Re: 10 frames advantage for Pai's d/f+pg

Weird. I've always thought that it could be struggled out of to minimize the freeze time... I checked the Virtua Project homepage again, and it has listed under frame advantage 10, then a -5. What does that -5 mean? Does it mean that one can struggle to minimize the stun time to actually recover 5 frames before Pai recovers from her throw? That doesn't seem to make much sense either.

Of course Mike is perfectly correct in stating that if you get them to struggle and TT attack, you've already won the battle. I remember one match where the opponent would do a turn towards punch, and the Pai inashi'd it and stumble threw... just very stylish, if it isn't the most efficient.

-Jason

 

My guess is the -5 is the disadvantage that Pai is at if the Throw is countered. i.e. Opponent has 5 frame advantage. Seems to ring true since I believe Pai can block any attack thrown at her from the counter but that leaves her open to throw. If she attacks though, she always gets stuffed by elbow, but it eliminates the immediate throw.

Nutlog

 

Re: Pai's d/f pg, k(g), p g

Actually, when Pai's d/f pg throw is escaped, the opponent has a guarenteed side throw...

Also my hunch is that the -5 is actually against Taka, because I swear the trick doesn't work on him and taka seems to recover from the d/f pg throw faster than the other characters.... and that Mike is right, you cannot struggle to decrease the recovery time of the d/f pg throw.

-Jason

 

You're right Jason, it's against Taka.

A quick note about the stats on the Virtua Project, and in particular what the notation means on Pai's df+P+G throw. Any number in <font color=#9999ff>blue</font> means "against Taka". For Pai's df+P+G throw it lists Pai's advantage as a fixed 10 frames against everybody except Taka--where she is actually at a disadvantage of 5 frames.

A ~ between advantage times means that the advantage can be reduced to the minimum value noted by struggling, and in some cases the advantage can be turned into a disadvantage. For example, Akira's Surprise Exchange can mean a 6 frame disadvantage to Akira if the opponent struggles well enough.


cheers,

<font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#3366ff">kbcat</font>