I was just reading through the TKOD guide for Jeffrey, which was compiled from a thread from a while ago. Anyway, it says: <blockquote>If you insist on learning it the trick is to bring the stick back to neutral after the kick hits and to complete the motion before Jeffry's kicking foot touches the ground.</blockquote> This isn't correct afaik. If you complete the motion before his foot touches the ground, I'm quite sure it doesn't work. But then the article goes on to say: <blockquote>If you do it too quickly, the splash mountain wont come out. The motion needs to be started in the last 3-5 frames of the toe kick, and completed within 2 frames of his foot hitting the ground.</blockquote> Which sounds more correct, and kinda contradicts what was said earlier. Anyway, what has all this to do with palm reading? I'm glad you asked! You'll notice that as Jeff performs the Toe Kick, one of his arms is up and the other is down. As he kicks out, he clenches his hands into a fist, and then slowly opens them as his leg comes down. Look at the hand that's raised, and you'll find that if you complete the motion for the TKoD (d,df,f+P+G) the moment his hand is fully open, then you'll successfully perform the Splash Mountain (or Back Breaker if behind). Whether or not this secret palm signal was by design or a coincidence I do not know, but hey, it seems to work. __ m y k e how ya gonna win when ya ain't right within?