Peter's post

Discussion in 'General' started by Myke, Jun 15, 2000.

  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    The following post that I'm quoting was posted to the doaonline strategy forum by Peter. I had always intended on replying to it but never had the time until tonight. So here it is:


    Hi, I just started playing DOA2 recently, and I've been trying to figure the system out. I come from a VF3 background, so if I use the wrong lingo here, please forgive.

    Anyhow, I have a bunch of questions and game engine observations that I would really really like feedback on. If any of you can set me straight, answer some questions, or point me towards an applicable FAQ, I'd be mighty thankful.

    I. Jann Lee

    High kick DH > f+S+P > CD f+P--is this completely inescapable? (cf. Chi-Crew's combo FAQ) I've been practicing it in sparring mode, giving the computer various things to do after the DH, and the window of opportunity seems VERY narrow--like a single frame or something.


    I believe this has been already addressed on this forum, but I'll throw in my 2c anyway. The high kick DH puts you into a stun animation from which you can execute a DH to cancel out. Doing a low DH will foil the f+S+P catch throw, which means the combo isn't guaranteed. Actually you can just crouch guard against the f+S+P too, no? After the high kick DH, Jann needs to close some distance before he can execute the catch throw, and also you can't be thrown out of a stun. If you just maintain a crouch guard I think you should be OK? Also, let's say the f+S+P catch throw connects, you can always DH the CD, f+P too.


    II. Game Mechanics

    1. Throwing:
    a) In VF3, you can auto-duck high attacks, but you are still open to high throws during the duck animation (10 frames?) In DOA2, it seems you can auto-duck high throws too. Yes? No?


    I think the system is similar to that of VF3's in that you can still be high thrown early in the crouch animation (not sure on the frame count). The way I tested this was to set the CPU's 2nd action to high throw, hit it with a standing punch and then immediately crouch. It seems that it was possible for the CPU to throw me before I had fully crouched. However, it wasn't able to throw me if I crouch dashed instead. So in answer to your question, I don't think you can auto-duck a high throw.


    b) you can escape S+P throws, but you can't escape command throws--yes? no? also, you can't escape the first part of a multi-throw but you can escape the second and third parts with S+P--yes? no? and you can't escape low throws, back throws, etc....


    Correct on all accounts except that escaping the multi-parts is done with S+P+K.


    c) catch throws like Jann Lee's f+S+P and Leon's df,df+S+P seem to have priority over high attacks. ie, you can interrupt a high punch during it's execution with one of these catch throws. Does Kasumi's catch throw work the same way vs. low/mid attacks? what's the system here?


    Kasumi's catch throw works against low attacks which are performed, and recover, standing (think Zack's d+K) as well as some mid attacks which don't hit too high.


    2. Attacks
    Does the VF term "counterable" as in "throw counterable" and "punch counterable" apply to DOA2? As in certain moves, if blocked, have a long recovery time in which you are completely vulnerable to throws or (fast) punches.


    Characteristic of DoA2, as someone has already mentioned, is that a vast majority of attacks are uncounterable. There are attacks with lengthy recovery times though which are certainly counterable and/or throw counterable if blocked.


    ok, two more questions: during the recovery time of a whiffed/blocked move, you can't block but can you DH?


    I'm afraid you can't do anything to cancel out of a whiffed or blocked move if that's what you meant. Nor are there occasions where you can DH but you can't block after a whiffed/blocked move. Put simply, if you can block, then you can DH, and vice versa.


    also, I read somewhere that struggling speeds up recovery time. does that apply to stuns, whiffed moves, blocked moves, or all of them?


    I don't think struggling helps anywhere in DoA2. Stuns/staggers can be cancelled out of, but nothing can be done about whiffed/blocked moves. The other case, which I recall Wind-X (@doaonline) mention was that it was possible to struggle out of a normal hit stun. This one I'm not too sure about. The example he cited were the attacks which forced you into a crouch, and if you did nothing, then you could be crouch thrown, but if you were to enter any input, then the crouch throw would miss. I hardly call this "struggling" since you weren't required to flood a buffer with inputs in an attempt to reduce the time spent in a stun. All you had to do was push a button.

    The way I think about it is that those attacks simply put you in a crouch, and don't really "stun" you per se. If you're just holding Guard with the stick in neutral, then it's going to take you X frames to return to a standing position. During the early part of the standing up animation, you can be crouch thrown. However, if you were in a crouch, with stick in neutral, and you entered an attack, then no frames are wasted in standing up, but instead, you immediately go into the standing attack (or From Crouching attack if applicable), thus, preventing the crouch throw. Did that make sense?

    __
    m y k e
    how ya gonna win when ya ain't right within?
     
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    b) you can escape S+P throws, but you can't escape command throws--yes? no? also, you can't escape the first part of a multi-throw but you can escape the second and third parts with S+P--yes? no? and you can't escape low throws, back throws, etc....


    Correct on all accounts except that escaping the multi-parts is done with S+P+K.



    On the Dreamcast, set at arcade controls, a S+P would actually suffice. I'm not sure if it applies to the arcade. Actually, today was the second time after Japan that I actually had a go with DOA2 in the arcade.

    I seemed to be having more problems escaping multi-link throws with S+P...could it be that S+P+K is required?

    ice-9
     
  3. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    s+p+k is used to escape multi throws in the
    earlier doa2 arcade machines (the ones all over
    the U.S.) the dreamcast version is based on the
    millenion (SP?) version that was released in
    japanese arcades earlier in this year. some other

    changes were made, like some wall priorities im
    not sure about. so for dc use s+p, arcade s+p+k.


    <font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>
     
  4. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    That would explain it, thanks Sal!

    ice-9
     
  5. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I think struggling will help out of staggers/stuns (at least certain ones). I remember trading blows with the CPU--both of us crumple to the floor (same stun) except the CPU recovers first--I hadn't bothered with recovering. Since then, I would mash the buttons a bit while stunned and every time we trade blows again we would either recover at the same time or I would get up first.

    ice-9
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks Myke. I'm glad those follow-ups aren't inescapable, makes for better yomi. dash in hi counter low throw would be styling.

    I think the system is similar to that of VF3's in that you can still be high thrown early in the crouch animation (not sure on the frame count). The way I tested this was to set the CPU's 2nd action to high throw, hit it with a standing punch and then immediately crouch. It seems that it was possible for the CPU to throw me before I had fully crouched. However, it wasn't able to throw me if I crouch dashed instead. So in answer to your question, I don't think you can auto-duck a high throw.

    that seems so VF to me, that a CD is faster than simple crouching. is this common across all 3D fighting games? like tekken, SC, etc.?

    Kasumi's catch throw works against low attacks which are performed, and recover, standing (think Zack's d+K) as well as some mid attacks which don't hit too high.

    ok, so catch throws behave much like normal attacks.

    i haven't played for week (i don't own a dc *thankfully*), otherwise i'd have a lot more questions for you. :)
     

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