Play Wolf (and lose) the Destro way!

Now, since this is the FIRST thread in the VF5 Wolf section of the YEAR, I'm going to attempt to give a few base ideas for those who haven't gotten around to using the best wrestler in fighting games... Wolf!

I'm not the best player in the universe or anything, but here are some of the things that work for me here in Osaka.

Opening:
B + P - Wolf's short elbow. It's a great way to get a bulldogging opponent off his game early. Build that little kernel of fear in them so you can begin throwing the CRAP out of them!

(this is where I start a lot of my mix-ups using ground throws and the pick-up.)

F + P, P+K - Dragon Fish Blow into Spinning Elbow. Also a good move to use on more aggressive opponents who might be using a slower move than for the Short Elbow. Can also come in handy against people who backdash right at the start.

DF + P+K - Low Swipe. Goes lower than most jabs, gets you a quick knockdown.

MIX-UPS

After the elbow, tech-rolling never happens, so I try to hit the pick-up and usually do a throw. The Giant Swing is good here, but I count on people to expect that, so instead I hit the F5. The mix-up isn't there, however, because if the opponent is wise to you, he will poke you out of it and start beating you down, so...

1. Throw

2. Another Elbow into Pick Up again!

3. Low Swipe!

That's my best one.

PRESSURE.

I like to mess with people on techs and recoveries by changing things up. I bait a sweep into a low throw like the Pedigree (DF, DF + PKG) or a high kick into a quick rush(F, F + P+K).

Or for tech rolls, you can switch things up with moves like the strong lariat (B,F,F + P). or his Running Calf Kick (UF + K+G?)

On even footing, use the Quick Knee(F+K) if you're fishing for counter hits. If it hits once, I like to use it again, because #1. If the hit was a counter, you do more damage by doing another knee during the crumple, and #2. If it wasn't a counter hit, the second one will most likely catch them in their retaliation. After the counter hit, I like the toe kick - spin kick combo here as I can usually hit them both, plus it scoots a bit out if I need a ring out.

a NEW JUGGLE!

There's a pretty hefty new juggle wolf can do in two situations.

Out of his running move, Wolf has a Sky High Toss (P+G during run forward) and as Wolf is turning around(it's tricky, but possible) he can hit (UF+P+K, P, UF+P+K, P, K). It does a NICE chunk of damage, but chances of catching that throw on a conscious opponent either takes some strong pressure or some heavy drugs.

He can also do this juggle, and it's EASIER, out of his HCF + P+G(the new Spiral Toss throw) against a high wall. Bouncing them down out of that is quite powerful.

So those are the basic tidbits I've picked up so far, and they've gotten me to an astonishing 283 and 727 win-loss record.

If you have any better tips to throw in, or just want to say how my first thread sucks, feel free!

 

Cool stuff! I assume your in Japan playing it already. Can't wait to try Wolf out in this game.

Is the knee (fP) now safe on block, or is it still throw counterable on block? I also heard it is advantage on normal hit now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Looking at the frame data on hk-vf.net, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is no longer throw counterable (-8) and is +1 on normal hit. Not much, but it certainly is nice.

What I'm really excited about is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, which is only -2 on guard and allows for a combo on any hit, not to mention its decent range and that it avoids low attacks. Its slow execution is its only drawback, really, but it's great for applying serious pressure I think. Mixing this into your game more often might help you out Destro /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Very true that UF + P+K is quite useful, but I've had a problem with it here against pokers that have been able to juggle me out of it.

A nice change-up against crouching opponents is (UF+P+K, D+P, D,D,DF,F +P) It does a nice bit of damage and usually keeps the opponent from trying to crouch too often.

Another move I'm liking is DF, DF + P+K. I believe it's called the Eagle Discharge, or something weird. It's a lot like Akira's DF+DF+P, but they're feet-up for a second and all I could do after was the Quick Rush. If anyone knows something better, I'm all ears.

 

check the vf5 wolf thread...there are combos there. it isn't clear but it looks like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif , /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif , /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is for closed stance & /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is for open stance.

 

Fuck this, can't stand it. I wrote a sarcastic comment in shoutbox about how fun it seems to be basing your Wolf play around 4p and pickup and Destro went apeshit PM'ing me and insulting me for 30min like he's a headcase. I have no trouble with the guy and it all seems to be misscommunication so here goes;

6k normalhit > 6k isn't very vaild as it's +1 now on normalhit which is great by the way. Remember to threathen with the 46p from time to time after this to always make them QR.

If you use 4p with wolf you can do 4p>2p>4p(slam) and then go for groundthrow/heavydowns and whatnots but don't go around doing just 4p>pickups. Wolf only has one throwdirection against grounded which gives damage, go for screwhook combo or against non HW's you can do 4p>2p>63214pp I think. Wolfs combolist is posted for VF5 here;

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/143193/page/1#Post143193

Your flowcharts after pickup are kinda questionable/weird because a good player will fuzzy them all since you have two high attacks and one slow low. Try to work in mids like his new midkick / crouchthrows / kg cancels and whatnot more. Dashing forward and doing TKS is something I like a lot. Catchthrows are quite nice also, atleast in VF4. You have to ask yourself that if you're doing pickup for getting the low lariat damage afterwards if it wouldn't have been better to combo in the first place kinda. Granted it's nice with a lowattack that knocks down on normalhit.

Okizemetactics; 9k+g seems very weird. It's simply to slow. So is 466p which also is pure high I believe. If it is you could get more damage out by simply throwing someone standing and guarding and with the new clashsystem it's safer to do so probably. It's not easy landing 29 frame moves in Okizeme against good players imo.

I use alot of TKS, 3p/1p (stagger against delayed rising, depends on how good the opponent is on fuzzying), direct crouchthrows / singel screwhook (fishing MC) etc. and throws In Evo. You can use dash > 3p as a form of auto 2choice move after screwhooks etc cause if they're just lying on the ground you get the small down and if they are rising / offensive it becomes the attack on it's own. Doing pkg and kg before throwing is great, everything to control the pace basicly.

In VF5 K+G seem interesting against ETE users, 9p+k seems great like Ladon said, Auger Slash probably has it's uses as does 66p+k etc. 33p+k seems to be safe on block (-8) according to hkvf framelist and has midknockdown but is pretty slow at 18frames. Maybe it's something you can use in staggersituations (like after your pickup) anyways since it's safe and normalhit combolauncher. I'm looking forward to trying this out as a whiffpunisher etc (specially when people recover low). It's a shame that 66p+k look s to be -14 on guard, I remember when people thought it was advantage on guard!

/Later, KiwE

 

kiwe, you are pretty funny consider Destro plays with real players and you don't play against people, and consider Destro has played VF5 and you haven't. You use tks 1p/3p depending how good they are? lol, this come from someone who's only vf knowledge is watching vf videos on the internet. I'm still waiting for someone who has experienced kiwe's wolf. So quit trying to bash someone who's probably ten times better than you. He insulted you because you deserved it.

 

Like shang said... 9P+K is good on paper, but in practice you are gonna get juggled most of the time. 1P is crappy. 3P is even worse. The only thing I would say wolf has over VF4 is 6P to punish whiffs due to the new follow up that combos on mC, and 66P+K to punish whiffs or surprise attack from range (you get owned if it's blocked though). Other than that, as a Wolf player in VF5, you have to simply reply on good yomi, screwhook(beefed up from evo, or actually... fixed..), and look for PGS 0-frame throws. Everything else is not something you can base your game around really. You're either gonna get floated or P interrupted.

If you play against decent comp, you'll understand the overwhelming odds that a wolf player is at for most of the match ups. It doesn't mean Wolf sucks, it just means that you have to be more precise and methodical in your play.

 

Thanks to Destro for starting a new thread for Wolf! It takes guts to play Wolf, and it probably takes more to start a thread on VFDC as a new member. While I think we can debate some of Destro's points, I admire the honest desire to share his thoughts and wanting to contribute. I wish more vets would stick their necks out like he's doing, instead of waiting in the cut to just rail on all the things they think are incorrect in other people's efforts (not talking about anyone in this thread, just a general phenom around here).

I have basically one or two games of experience playing Wolf in VF5, so I'm basing what I know on videos, info in the Black Book, and the play I did against Wolf.


Kiwe wrote;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your flowcharts after pickup are kinda questionable/weird because a good player will fuzzy them all since you have two high attacks</div></div>

while I agree that mixing Highs, Lows and Throws isn't the best idea, since they can all be beaten by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, I'm not sure if you have time to Fuzzy anything after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif if Wolf doesn't Dash, because you're @ -10, and Wolf's lunging throws will reach you w/ out a Dash, and in VF4 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif would as well.

While I hate textbook play, I noticed in the Black Book, Astro quickly mentions the merits of both /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in the Wolf section, in addition to HCB+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as being fast mids that are easy to use. While they aren't that popular, I think they're good for beginners who need to get to grips with the idea of being at big advantage at close range after hitting with a Mid. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif gives +7 on Counter Hit, and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif gives +8, so Astro advises trying these moves after guarding the oppt's attack, or after Normal Hitting with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. He also mentions in the OM area that Counter Hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif -> OM is a nice flow, since you can get to the side easily.

As it's been mentioned elsewhere, +7 is when the oppt will have to TE to avoid a Throw, and having 3 Catch Throws, a new Full Circular, and all his normal Throws, this is a great position for Wolf to be in. I think HCB+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a great move, but it's a little more of a finesse move to my mind. I think /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif are good, simple attacks for new Wolf players to use, while more practiced players will probably use them less.

I'm also interested in what Astro has to say about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, the Death Scythe. This is a High Full Circular kick that is even on Guard, +9 on Normal Hit, and +12 on Counter. Here's what Astro says, to the best of my ability:

this move's slow execution is balanced by it's long range and the fact that it's safe on Guard, so even though it's High, and Slow, it's basically a "Low Risk" attack. On Hit, not only is the oppt turned to the side, you'll be at a BIG advantage as well.

On Normal Hit, Nitaku between a Throw and his Sobat /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is really strong. Since the oppt can't duck to avoid the Throw here, they might try to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, in which case the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will Counter Hit. Here, you'll be getting the Side KD, so you can Combo with Knee follow-ups, or try:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif -> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif -> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (not on Heavies, closed stance?)

If I'm understanding the next part right, I think he's saying that it's useful against Tech Rolls, and can be used at Mid Range. He makes a point though that on Hit, it's going to be a 12 frame Throw, and since the oppt might be a little far away, you can use the Giant Swing or KS, since they'll lunge forward enough to reach, and can be used against the oppt's side as well (I'm assuming he means it'll convert to a side Throw, someone w/ better Japanese skills can probably confirm this). Also, in FT the F5 (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif) lunged as well, don't know if it still does.

On Counter Hit, High Side Throws and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif are Guaranteed w/ the fastest input, although the Throws can be TE'd.

If you manage to Counter Hit w/ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, and got off a Giant Swing into the Wall, you'd net 137 damage. Just under 75% of the life bar in 2 commands...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the smell of Wolf in the morning</div></div>

Bryan

 

Just to be clear, my post was directed at Kiwe.

Thanks to Destro for the initial post though. Wolf players are far and few.

 

Shang, you are pretty funny considering you already have a squeeky voice and only need the red nose to fullfill your dream as the clown. In case you failed to realize it, Destro is a new player who has never claimed to be any good (in fact the contrary) and who wanted help. In fact, he wanted my help and asked me to write in this thread, constructive opinions (do you know what that is?) after we argued on shoutbox and he seems to be a cool guy so I did it. I have never, ever, claimed to be a good Wolf player. I'm thinking about playing Pai/Wolf in VF5 but that's about it. I posted cause nobody else was.

So do you understand how idiotic all of this makes you seem? Instead of asking why I write in this thread you should ask yourself why you weren't. Why you still haven't. It doesn't take a genious to figure it out. Your trollbait material is getting older then you are, we've heard it all before. Quest, n00b, *sigh*. It's just so old.
Coming from you, someone who runs away with his tail between his legs last minute from moneymatches and who has used his choice of character as an explanation to all his shortcomings in VF for 5 years, someone who only complains and insults but never posts himself, the "less talk more action" line seems like a comical pun. I can't wait to see you banned again (for the third time), we all know it's going to happen - you just can't help yourself. Btw the last opinion I heard of your great Wolf was that it was a 2p spamming thing whilest BK's was way ahead of you in the ice-9 thread from Myke. Go fuck yourself.

Akiralove; Thanks for your posting. And posting with meaning. Loads of good points, I had never heard or seen that Wolf sidehit combo and was starting to think he didn't have fun stuff like that in VF5 from sideposition ^___^ +10 would indeed make the throw hard (impossible) to fuzzy but I still think there needs to be mids involved (throw isn't guaranteed with new throwspeed), otherwise the opp can 2p etc instead to often. 3p+k is just to small of a payoff to really make them stop doing things like that imho. I'm still waiting for my blackbook from a guy in Japan, didn't know it had interesting things like that in it.

About 1p/3p; Yes the new frameadvantage makes them better in VF5, specially in context. Take 3p; On MC you can now threathen with 6k MC which is now safe! This is something you couldn't do in Evo cause you got +4 and knee is 17. However, on 3p MC even though you need +7 for nitaku now which you stated with a throw you have to remember the opponent is forcecrouched so you don't really have the direct nitaku threat. I think mixing up knee/delayed throw/direct crouchthrow/screwhooks etc is the way to go here in VF5. 1p is different though. In evo I like doing 3p >1p from time to time cause of the staggereffect if they're still crouching and the MC frames if they are aggressive. Yes, 3p MC > screwhooks works well also (before I get critiqued for this) but 1p is only -3 on guard meaning you can ARE and I really like the stagger it gives on a croucher > PGS.

Srider; 6p(p) combos on mC since VF4 I think. It's nothing new as a whiffpunish. 66p+k is an awesome whiffpunisher due to range and I'm kinda curious as to how counterable it really is. There often seems to be a sideturned situation after it's guarded and I haven't really seen many taking the guaranteed elbow (if it's -14 as the frames say) on guard... maybe something to do with alignment? Hope there's something like that to it, -14 is kinda harsh. 9p+k I've seen used a lot in Oki (were you can't get juggled by a standing P), I still think it's a great tool if used right. -2 is simply to awesome and it really has range.

 

Kiwe,

6PP does NOT combo in mC. Never has nor does it combo in VF5, only on counter hit with minimal delay.

The new 6P follow up that combos on mC is high so you really need to be technical and hit check it correctly.

66P+K is very counterable if blocked.

Obviously, any move when used right is a great tool. I'm not saying 9P+K is useless, but it's a heavy yomi tool, just like most of Wolf's moves. Due to how slow it is, despite being a jumping attack, sometimes you still can't beat a throw clash with it.


For oki, OM is way better. You can end up getting back low throw. You just have to worry about ring positioning.
If you want to beat a potential low p attempt, wolf has safer options. If you know a low p is coming, wolf has better options... so yeah, 9P+K is a pretty cool move, but it shouldn't be seen as one of wolf's main offensive tools.

 

Kiwe:
At least <u>people have heard of my wolf </u>. People have played my wolf, people seen my wolf on video. what have you done? Other than the excessively bullshit you post, NO ONE KNOWS YOU...

Answer me these questions:

#1, Have you ever played VF5?

#2, When was the last time you played VF with ANYONE?

When was the last time anyone has seen actually footage of you playing vf? When was the last time you went to any sort of gathering, event, tournament, or ANY KIND VF related activities? You have proven again and again you know nothing about playing VF, you don't play VF. The only thing you do, and have ever done is to pretend to discuss VF in theory. You lack even the most basic concepts of how to play Wolf or VF in general. Destro came here in good faith looking for ways to improve his game. Because he, like most of us here, plays with OTHER PEOPLE. Where as you, the only thing you do is sit in front of your computer and write and stuff you have never experienced of. "You play people who knows fuzzy guard" What a Joke! it's a sad day when someone new comes on VFDC and get "advice" from you!

Don't even know f+p,p requires Counter hit lol again you prove youself as a clowd shoot. Go cry somewhere cuz you ain't getting the respect okay?

 

hey there welcome to the forum /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

please use the search to find any previous wolf related posts which can help u amongst ur queries. there is a wolf command list and useful stratergy threads to help raise the resistance to ur game, and make it a most exciting VF gaming experience ever!. ~ if u have any questions or queries about VF related system info or specific character techniques, please dont hezitate to ask politely and precisely amongst the character and stratergy forum

we welcome and enjoy ur stay amongst the VFDC community /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ~ we are glad u found VF! and have a nice day /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Well played BK.

 

Just go get this straight so you're saying if I evade a move for instance and do 6p (in mC) the 6pp part (second hit) isn't guaranteed in Evo Srider due to 6p hitting as minor counter? Can change that to after guarding a lowsweep / whatnot as long as it is in mC the 6p hits. Just want to make 100% sure that's what you're saying because you might want to doublecheck that if you are.

Edit: Sorry Shang this thread isn't about how clueless you are about the Nordic VF scene (which is really really sad). Try writing something on topic if you want me to reply otherwise I'll just wait for the ignorebutton to deal with the trolling.

 

Kiwe,

I just tried it in Evo and it combos on mC only with zero delay, so this part you are right.

It doesn't combo though in VF5.

 

#1 Kiwe has never played vf with people.

#2 Kiwe has never played nor seen VF5.

#3 Kiwe is giving vf5 advices to someone who has played at least 1,000 games in Japan.

 

Bryan thanks for the awesome post -- learned a lot from reading it.

 

Wolf is your main character Shang and you didn't even know 6pp combos on mC in evo, even made fun of me saying it did, clearly you're an idiot. I'd be happy to answer your so called "questions" (your usual way of arguing or being defensive) if you PM'd them to me. In the old days I would've jumped all over your silly attacks of me just to show how ignorant you are but now I just find you sad and care about the thread not derailing into another war. I also hope to get healthy discussions going. 'Dis specially with the influx of new players and me really wanting to learn Wolf for VF5. Can't you atleast "try" to make this a positive place once again Shang and leave all that Emo Jazz behind you? If you can't, please just go away and let people who want to discuss VF5 Wolf do so.

Said by BK in the commandthread;

BK brings up some good points here (cut and paste ftw). I had totally missed screwhooks being -8 and 46p being -9 now. In VF4 after 46p being guarded you were often in sidepos so TEG'ing was kinda easy, with the new system I'm not sure if it's that easy actually; might be harder to cover your tracks. I've been told you get +3 ontop of a sideturned situation to the frames so with the new system, punchspeeds and sideturned nitaku this move might perhaps actually turn out to be more risk then it was in VF4 maybe? As a whiffpunish against crouchers and so on I'm really looking forward to playing around with 33p+k as Destro and others have mentioned. It's basedamage is 30 (!), basicly 4p combos apply and I believe it scrapes the floor for OTB combos. Normally a combo seems to be quite nice damage.