Player Swapping.

Whether this is rife or a phenomenon unique to the London VF community I don't know but it's something that troubles me whenever I'm faced with it. Virtua Fighter is rich in depth and this fact is demonstrated perfectly in it's diverse characters, each with their own traits etc. Just because Jeffery is a powerhouse it doesn't mean he must be played in that way nor should Aoi have to concentrate on her reversals, whatever works for you within the confines of the character is what I'm getting at. But, what about the player who controls the character?

Two people can have two completely different styles of play and thought, even with the exact same character. One may be conservative and prefer to throw while the other may enjoy flashy high risk moves and stances. As an opponent you'd have to tackle both players differently either by being aggressive or by being defensive.

Here's my point: What if your opponent changes half way through the match, is that fair? Is it moral? We are all capable of and have probably displayed some genius VF play that saved our arses and won ourselves the match at some time or another yet, what if the genius player wasn't the one you initially played against.

Personally, I find it incredibly annoying for players to switch during a round, if you've figured out your opponent's trail of thought or, have just become comfortable only to face a fresh one who's been watching you behind your back and analysed your style then I'd say you're at a servere disadvantage. Much like continual stomping after the rounds over I think it's rude and inconsiderate to the opponent.

Do you feel the opponent is only what you play against in the game or, are you also put off by mid fight style changes. What are you thoughts on the matter?

 

I can't really see how anyone can conceivably consider it unfair or immoral.

If they can't beat you with one character then they are not obligated to keep wasting tokens and time with that character when they could be winning with someone else.

Do you expect people to not switch styles in midfight as well? Or ask them to stop using throws or low punches because it's fucking with your flow?

 

I think that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Do you expect people to not switch styles in midfight as well? Or ask them to stop using throws or low punches because it's fucking with your flow?

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You misunderstand me. What I don't like is when I'm playing player A who after winning/loosing the round swaps with player B and thus takes over his game/character, leaving me (you), player C with a completely new style to tackle with.

 

ohhhhh.

well, when I was playing street fighter with local scrubs, this was a sign of disrespect (sort of) to the other guy. Or it could be a favor to a friend. The thinking is like:
If you (the 'cheater') swamp the victim the first round and then switch: "I own my opponent so much, I'll trust you with my quarter and second round. If I happen to lose that second round, it's no biggie because I'm positive I can own them again in the third."

The cheater loses the first round: "I'm not good enough against this opponent or with this character. I'll sacrifice a little playtime and gamble that my friend can keep my win streak alive by taking over here."

Or they could arrange it beforehand. "you play my favorite character and see how you do. If you can't win, I'll step in."

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anyway, this is their choice, their money, and there's nothing particularly unfair about it. You'll eventually have to play the more-skilled player anyway, and in fact you should be glad to be exposed to people with more skill and/or a variety of styles.

Regardless of your opponent, you control whether or not you win. If it's a pisstake for you (I'm practicing my uk), you could always make a comment like "too scared to play a skilled opponent?" and see if it accomplishes something besides annoying them.

 

That's an interesting explanation/solution. You're right, ultimately it's me that remains the constant, my dilemma can be overcome, it's my sensibilities that hinder me I guess. Cheers.

 

There are variety of ways to look at this.

1.Practice, work hard, get better & bring all your powers of concentration to the joystick so that nothing short of an act of God keeps you from stomping on their bloody heads at the end of the round.

2. Check out their shoes. Tokens can be hard to come by. Being a good sport and letting them swap out (giving them rounds even!) makes you a hella nice fella. Then kick their arses.

3.Your reputation as a vf pimp has crews of cats gunning for you. They shaved their heads and prayed and trained and hoped one day that their combined powers could match the ones you wield so effortlessly. You are their messiah. Sacrificing your only begotten self for their salvation is a pretty cool thing to do, every once in a while. The rest of the time they need a good rogering.

 

I wouldn't put it that way Sanjuro. There are two ways I interpret the situation:

1. I loose the round, opponent thinks I'm a soft touch and lets his mate have a crack at me believing he can beat me whenever he wants. Arrogant/ignorant.

2. I win the round, player makes a fuss about the sticks or the character he/she controls and lets his friend take over thus forcing me to rethink my approach: The first guy always started the round with , his favourite throw was +, I was ready for him/her if he/she tried etc. While the new opponent must be learnt from scratch: My rhythm is gone, + doesn't work on him/her, what moves does he/she rely on? Cowardice.

Both are just as offensive to me as I believe you should stick with the match till you win or loose with no interruptions in between.

Unfaltering concentration is easier said than done for me. Though it's in my interests to get some.

 

I am opposed to swapping players during mid-match. If a player loses a round badly, then he/she shouldn't be a coward, and should just try again the next round, even if chances are losing will happen again. Players shouldn't be such chickens. And if a player wins a first round by a large margin, it is disrespectful to the other player to swap because it's "too easy". So either way, it doesn't sound right to me.

 

I get your point. Swapping out with a friend midgame is discourteous & perhaps disconcerting.

BUT,

If you lose, you have been outplayed. Period. Blame it on the joystick, player swapping, machi play, Saturn's rings...it doesn't matter because at the end of the day you are turning your own failings as a player into a disturbance in the cosmic order of things. You should always win. This approach to failure breeds only more failure.

If instead you approach being beaten as an opportunity to strengthen your game, then you are on the path to all of this not being a problem anymore. Think about it. When someone beats you they expose your weaknesses. Don't hide these weaknesses from yourself, confront them and expose them further. Irradicate them as best you can. All of this might simply be a problem of dealing with cheeky, arrogant, cowardly, discourteous bastards. Find a way to beat them and your problems disappear. Nothing keeps you from modifying your own game so that the scouting that goes on over your shoulder is useless. Be honest with yourself & you WILL whup some ass.

 

I normally don't see player swapping in the context that you guys have seen it (after one guy gets whipped badly). In fact, it's only happened like that once where I beat a guy and he gave the stick to his buddy. Even then, doesn't offend me. If I can adjust to two different people within a round, that makes me better at adjusting of the course of some matches.

I mostly see friends swapping when they're both low on quarters/tokens. Me and my buddies are guilty of this. We're somewhat close in skill, and use some of the same characters, so we'll pick a character we both know and swap each round, win, lose, or draw. We don't do this to diss anyone, or throw people's strategies off. It's just that when we're low on money and we aren't ready to leave the arcade, we'll start swapping off and pooling tokens instead of beating each other. Even then, we've only done it like four times because we're normally ready to leave the arcade when our money's low.

 

Man back in the vf2/samurai showdown 2 days...people would pull that crap ALL the time. I eventually adapted by learning how to beat almost everyone locally and developing a team with a good friend of mine, so that if people pulled that, I could do it right back at em. I think its gay, but also great when you whup the person and then 2 people can't say shit back to you /versus/images/icons/cool.gif

 

Who were the double-team this time Adio, Dai & Jason? /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

Quit moaning and brush up your blonde bimbo skills (that's Sarah 'case yer wonderin')

 

Hi there,

What you have posted remind me of my 'always-been-thrashed' during SF2 time. My friend and I did player-swapping so that I can get 'fighting experience' without too much 'investment' on the token. Yeah, he is a better player than me.

As I played VF4/Tekken, I do fight against the 'playing-swapping' team. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif Initially, I don't feel good about it. After a while, instead of cursing and swearing, I make a point to beat them no matter who is the player. It's a tough one yet challenging at the same time.

That's how I feel /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

Sg-Lion

 

....I think I understand...I've watched some games from all levels and often the better player takes a while to adjust to say, button smashing or repetitive moves (eg. coming back from 2 rounds easily 'cos the opponent uses the same moves)....I hardly think that people telling you to become flawless at VF4 is helpful advise...though there really is no other way to deal with it - this is no catch-all defence to any characters' moves, so you have to learn as the match progresses by getting hit, perhaps even losing the round.....if you then face an entirely different opponent next round, you effectively must start over again....which puts you, the better (or even worse) player at a severe disadvantage...