Poll: Near-useless techniques!

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Zero-chan, May 15, 2002.

  1. Zero-chan

    Zero-chan Well-Known Member

    Well, I've always said that there's no such thing as a technique in VF that's COMPLETELY useless... there's always some weird situational possibility where the most obscure command could come in useful.
    But... there's stuff the comes really, really close. So hopefully, in this thread, we will share our frustration of the techiniques which seem almost completely useless. Perhaps someone might even be able to enlighten us on a potential use we never even thought of.
    So, let me start this off:

    Vanessa: DS 2P+K. Let's see... really slow, incredibly obvious and vulnerable during execution, and hits mid for OK damage. Oh, it also take off one DP vs. Shun. But... in almost every situation where you could use this, there is something available that's faster, stronger, or less risky. ETP and I have been discussing this one for a while and we've been hard pressed to find ANY really good use for it at all.

    Sarah: WS D+K. Yay, a really slow and easily countered/blocked crescent kick. Granted, you can charge it to make it cause gaurd break, but then you're making it even MORE slow, obvious and easy to counter. Yippee.

    Lion: Dodge P+K+G. Possibly the worst dodge attack in the game (although Wolf players say his sucks even more, which I find hard to believe). Very difficult to get this to hit... in fact, at E6 some of the Lion players were purposely trying to do it as much as possible just to prove that yes, it might just be able to actually nail someone!

    Anyone else have any input?
     
  2. blackshadow

    blackshadow Well-Known Member

    shun's layin down attacks utterly pointless u can low kick him and maybe get another one in so dumb although the comp does fall for the kick it does a lot so maybe its not that pointless but still...
     
  3. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    kage's cannonball dive- u p+k....
     
  4. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    Sarah's WS K+G is a very nice attack when charged... 38 damage mid crescent with guard stagger. Plus, the charge animation goes under high punches. Unfortunately, Sarah has better attacks to dodge high moves and punish techrolls. It's very stylish, but then again, Sarah's got a lot of those.

    Just off the cuff:
    Aoi's P+K,P,P slaps. Worse than a regular punch and weaker to boot.
    Anybody's off-wall backflip. Never seen it used successfully (whereas the guard stagger properties of the off-wall kicks come in very handy).
    Sarah's FL K,K,K+G combo. All the bad parts of a DC with none of the benefits, and easier to see coming.
     
  5. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Aoi's P+K,P,P is fantastic if you know how to use it. If you're playing against a person (not CPU) try this. Don't finish it. Try P+K, then any throw -- hehe. or P+K, b,d/f+P

    My worthless moves:
    Lion's dodge attack is pretty bad b/c it's high. But if it hits, the down-attack is guarantted, so it ain't THAT bad. I'd rather have a mid dodge attack though.

    Shun:
    Laying down attack is brilliant... you just need practice to pull it off. I use it once per match at least. You must learn to lay down when the opponent isn't that far away. Not really good for 'diving' characters like Lei Fei.

    u P+K+G,P,P -- I only pull this off by accident. Terrible move.
    b/d P+K+G (see above)
    u+P+K (low punch takes it -- useless since VerC ... or just not near as useful.

    bb,P -- his attacks from behind are just too lame to do any good.

    Aoi: b,f,P+K -- this just takes TOO long. It would be better if there was sabaki in it. The only time it's good is when you KNOW you're about to be thrown, in which case b,d/f P gets the job done just as well.
     
  6. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Anybody's off-wall backflip. Never seen it used successfully (whereas the guard stagger properties of the off-wall kicks come in very handy).

    I got myself knocked out of the ring (low wall stage) when an opponent interrupted my wall backflip attack with a high punch on Monday. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  7. Fishie

    Fishie Well-Known Member

    Robyrt Aoi´s bitchslaps are awesome a they take priority over a shitload of moves the opponent might be trying on you .
     
  8. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Everything I've seen listed so far doesn't seem bad at all to me...

    Vanessa
    *DS d++P+K -- Can't comment much about it since I haven't toyed with it... but at the very least, it also grabs advantage everytime it connects, and I think that says a good deal for Vanessa. 32 frame execution does suck, but I've seen this sort of crap actually nail people.

    Sarah:
    *fc, K+G -- Oh I've had my uses for this attack! Nailed a couple people a few times in NY even. But as usual, pacing dictates whether it's an option or not.

    Lion:
    *Dodge Attack -- I have had my fair share of nailing people with this just about everywhere I go (including NY). For the most part, dodge certain attacks and cancel the dodge appropriately into the dodge attack and you get a decent combo with range (yes, this attack combos). Not to mention that if this attack is blocked, you're still quite safe, though not advantageous. Supposedly, it's special high (nailing low punchers), but I've only seen that effect like once and don't know if it's really the case.

    Shun
    *Lying down attacks - Assuming you're talking about db+K(G) and stuff like that... These are useful in toning down likely responses from your opponent. If you go db+KK, you shouldn't be surprised to get a throw or a backthrow nailed on you and it means a lot. To reduce that, you can fall down and take a small hit or so. This isn't the only use and you do have to remember that struggling has an effect in how fast you get up.
    *Drunken Walk - Believe it or not... this sequence/stance has its uses. One of the more popular uses lately is just using the single punch variant and flowcharting from that. From there, the double punch knock down variation is an option and puts you in a quick drunken stance with other options. The non punch variation dodges some attacks, but it's a nice way to get a blindfighting (back turned) game going on as well. This move, though very "weird" definitely has its uses and effects.
    *db+P+K+G = Shun's quick backstep (I like to call it machi step). Very good move and ub+P+K+G, P or db+P+K+G, P is a very nice tool. Especially on MC when it nets you a nice float that you can combo off of. However... I think you meant db+P+K.
    *db+P+K = Hard to use move, but with some sabaki properties and a few options that come out of it that can lead to normal or drunken stance. If given the advantage, you can actually pressure someone quite well with this attack, but the possibilities of this attack have not been discovered before me yet. But I've seen and used its application to find something useful, though as always (and generally with Shun) very situation specific. In this case, when you're at an advantage.
    *u+P+K - Though it's true that at times, it's best to just use HCB and what not, and that this isn't the low punch avoidance move anymore... that doesn't take away that it still pulls back a bit out of range to setup the handstand position. I find this move still quite useful, but more or less for the fact that there's a good variety of options from handstand. However, I still avoid various low attacks and what not with u+P+K, but for the most part, I use it because I often fight from mid or further range.
    *Shun's blindfighting game is definitely not what it was in VF3, but it still has uses and I still use b,b+P--despite not having free blind-throws or blind-low kicks anymore. Shun can still retreat with many options when his back is turned, so you can setup some machi type of play. In addition, he still has P+K,K which works like a charm in some situations for the old bugger. I still find his TT K to be quite useful as well.

    Kage
    u+P+K - Works in situations where you don't mind predicting various slow attacks or stances or even okizeme. Definitely not that great of a move, but there are places where you can spam it out. At least it's not as abusive as Jeffry's manual pounce.

    Aoi
    *Bitch Slaps -- They have their uses and because they're practically in place (non-advancing), they have nice defensive-spam abilities. The good part is that you can use them in combos and as I said, as defensive spam. The bad part is that they're heavily counterable. But these things can hit so often and pickup enough advantage in the overall round.
    *b,f+P+K -- Can be used in delay tactics, but I'll admit I don't use it that much. Aoi's such a "fast" character that I can understand an Aoi player not using this, but given the pressure you can setup on your opponent with her often, delay attacks that aren't counterable after block and also lead to stomach crumples don't seem bad at all, whatsoever in my mind.

    Wall Attacks -- when okizeme and body crossing is involved, I find these to be useful. For some post-combo situations, there are setups with these, though a bit tricky. When you go for the blind-AWR avoid just about anything linear fest-these are fun to throw in. Very unorthadox, but given the moment to pull them off, they can secure a decent advantage.

    Maybe it's all about style.... but I'll admit that there are some attacks that I myself consider useless... I'll post them sometime.... but for this post, felt I would make it be known that I haven't seen a truly useless move listed by far. The closest move to being useless in my mind is Kage's u+P+K.

    -Chanchai
     
  9. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    I find this to be quite funny, but, playing Kumite the other day, I was playing lei against Pai on a low wall stage. I hit her with a u/f+k and shot her like a basketball over the wall. It looked like something you'd see in the olympics lol. Pai: High Jump extraordinaire!!! lol. Also try to get Wolf's warp "Stunner" off. Charge P+K, f+p(crumple), f+k(knee), they techroll, ff, b+k+g<p+g. You'll hit them in the back with the first kick and if done at some sort of frame or position you'll get a warp Stunner off. He'll warp to the other side of the opponent and drop to the ground Stunner Style. NOT EASY, I've only got it once and I practiced for 30 min. But for style this setup rocks!!
     
  10. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Chanchai:
    I guess the post all on it's own is useless. Everyone's got their own style, and what it comes down to, is you're not going to try a move you're not comfortable with.
     
  11. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    For Vanessa,

    the 2p+k is actually pretty good if not for the fact that she has 4+p. It gives 4 frames advantage when blocked. It is quite slow but not that slow compared to charge moves. But 4+p is faster, gives more frame advantage when blocked/hit/counter.

    Lion's dodge attack is VERY good. It is special high so it is not so bad. I think Lion recovers very fast when blocked which is VERY VERY good. and it deals very good damage as you can tag in f,f+k,k. I think it is one of the better dodge attacks around. But it is a bit slow. Hey you cannot have everything right?
     
  12. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    Kage
    u+P+K - Works in situations where you don't mind predicting various slow attacks or stances or even okizeme. Definitely not that great of a move, but there are places where you can spam it out. At least it's not as abusive as Jeffry's manual pounce.

    <hr></blockquote>

    against the comp maybe.

    BO. i look forward to our next meeting. even though i may be practicing on my own, waiting in the shadows..........we'll see. i have to admit, i enjoy reading your bits on jacky strats, keep it up.....damn..women,....
     
  13. uk-guy

    uk-guy Well-Known Member

    useless move, easy! Kage's f,b+K. Really slow and high, easy to struggle out of and the Sabaki on low punches and kicks and low sweeps is useless, opponents can hit Kage guaranteed after the sabaki, why Sega? useless, useless, useless
     
  14. blackshadow

    blackshadow Well-Known Member

    not really i use it a lot to finish AI opponents reguarly they fall for it most of the time so its not totally pointless but against humans yes it is unless they r extremely dumb
     
  15. Oni-Kage

    Oni-Kage Well-Known Member

    AOI's Slaps

    Heh... as soon as I find a way to upload replays online I will show you guys a sick ass combo my friend did on me against the wall.. by accident... let's just say it was a 9-slap air juggle against my Shun that pretty much sobered him up cleaner than mother theresa.

    *winces*
     
  16. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    akira's back throw; it's a back AND catch throw, does mediocre damage, slow startup, and for what? in other words, why does a back throw need to be a catch throw? back throws are already unreversible. no one is going to present their back to you for that long; better off trying SDE or ShRm or DBC.

    i can't believe no one's ever stated this move as utter worthlessness.
     
  17. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Look at pai's. It's a normal throw, but for ultra crap damage (it's a stumble throw). All followups can be avoided, if you use a canned followup you get total damage of maybe 40 points, aieee. I guess that gets my vote.
    Other moves that blow or have started recently blowing:

    Akira: Most of his stuff has some use, at least for showoff value.
    Kage: b,f+K and f,b+K aren't winners. f,f+K+G isn't any more useful than f,f+PKG, even in combos, so no real reason to bother with it. Akira can probably TR --> dbpm kage after it connects. Never much reason to use u/b+K.
    Lau: Another guy who's like akira, most of his stuff is useful. I was thinking maybe u/f+K+G sucked, but a quick check of the movelist shows that it's got miraculous recovery.
    Pai: u/f+K+G. Back throw. They did a good job adding utility to d/b+P and b+P, no complaints about her other moves I guess. None of her circular evade strategies seem useful, but I suppose they'll beat a newbie who can't figure out which way to block.
    Shun: I don't know him well enough to comment, his f,f+P+K "flaming torpedo" seems sort of useless.
    Lion: I don't see b+P, P etc used now that b,f+PK is available. I'd guess it's nearuseless. The b+P hits high vs b,f+P+K hitting mid, but otherwise the f,b+P+K is faster and if the opponent falls for the third hit, it's more rewarding than b+P,P,K.
    u/f+P is not at good as u/f+K, and is slower.
    Wolf: There's a charge-type attack I can't find in the movelist, I'm unfamiliar with wolf. His backhanded chop is a useful charge attack, but the other one (maybe it doesn't charge, it's just really slow) crumples if it hits.
    Jeff: low headbutt. f,b+P still seems unlikely to hit and has no guaranteed rewards.
    Aoi: The hit throw involving two quick thrusting jabs seems a little useless, as it's tough to do. It's about 25% damage for the whole thing if both hits connect (does the throw work like that? can both hits connect and still lead to the throw?) Someone will inevitably respond: 'no, it's really easy, the timing is braindead. I find it tremendously useful.'
    Vanessa + Lei: No comment. I'm positive vanessa has a few useless items. The hoppy crescent kick comes to mind.
     
  18. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    Shun has a lot of showoff moves, like Akira and Sarah, and the headbutt is simply the most gratifying one to pull off.

    Aoi's b,f+P hit throw would be great if it were easier to time, and yes, it DOES work if both hits connect. It's great for my AI (who obviously does it every time), but I never use it /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  19. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    ""Wolf: There's a charge-type attack I can't find in the movelist, I'm unfamiliar with wolf. His backhanded chop is a useful charge attack, but the other one (maybe it doesn't charge, it's just really slow) crumples if it hits. ""

    could this be his arrow knuckle real??? true not much use, doesnt charge, but is slow, but it can stagger if im right.
     
  20. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member


    Kage: b,f+K and f,b+K aren't winners. f,f+K+G isn't any more useful than f,f+PKG, even in combos, so no real reason to bother with it.


    f,f+PKG is used for ringing out -- you know, when he throws your sorry ass in the air... it's all over.


    Shun: I don't know him well enough to comment, his f,f+P+K "flaming torpedo" seems sort of useless.


    Not bad in finishing a round off against an aggressive player. Not always the greatest though.


    Aoi: The hit throw involving two quick thrusting jabs seems a little useless, as it's tough to do. It's about 25% damage for the whole thing if both hits connect (does the throw work like that? can both hits connect and still lead to the throw?)


    It's not THAT hard to do, although the timing takes a bit of getting used to (b,f+P, P+G on hit). Takes about 10 or so tries to get the timing the first time, and then it's a piece of piss. It actually is quite useful. I played against a guy the other day who kept Inashi'ing damn near everything of mine. Then doing that move, nailing me everytime and pissing me off. It connects quite a bit, and is apparantly easier to pull off in Version C. I know where you're coming from though. The whole physics of it says you won't be able to anything with it, but I use it quite a bit.
     

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