Possible Technical Achievement...

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by adamYUKI, Feb 6, 2001.

  1. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    VF4 Contains Online play...that would make it an evolutionary step forward in the series..although not really advancing gameplay or graphics...

    They would monitor ping time...anything under 100ms would be allowed to play and they would ping right before each match...This would open a worldwide ranking system and worldwide competition...nothing could be better!! and hooked up to arcade machines!!!! Player dtats like wins/losses would be saved on the VMU and uploaded online.... that would be fun!!!


    <font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

    <font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>
  2. GreatDeceiver

    GreatDeceiver Well-Known Member

    The possibility of online play is really exciting, but I really don't see how it could happen, realistically, with any of today's technologies.

    I don't think 100ms latency is even remotely feasible - as a matter of fact, even a 10ms latency would compromise gameplay in VF, especially since you mentioned competitive play.

    If 1000 ms = 60 frames, then 100 ms = 6 frames, almost the execution time of the quickest punches in VF3. One couldn't possibly pull off Akira's knee with a ping of even 10 ms, he'd be lopsided by a .6 frame. Compensatory systems would have to be implemented, and it would just be a mess - no precision at all.

    however, in a future of controlled absolutely lag-free bandwidth, who knows :) it'd certainly be an exciting thing.
  3. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Hmm, I agree with decever....right now, in the current on-line world, the latency would be to much of a problem, though with the "next generation internet", it will be possible.

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
  4. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Are u saying that 2d fighting games online is possible yet impossible with 3d?

    Cause 2d online battles (3S) is already here...

    I'm sorry If i sound as if I'm doubting u.
    I'm not. I just suck as PC...so I'm just trying to understand the situation better.

    Last I heard though, Sega were working on this internet gimmick, where the arcade players battle the home players.

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'PSO '
  5. GreatDeceiver

    GreatDeceiver Well-Known Member

    There is a sort of DC matching service in Japan implemented by Capcom; the fighting games I know of that are available through it are the Vampire (Darkstalkers) collection, SSF2X, and now SFA 3 - a new version of that game will come out on Naomi soon, that mimics the online DC version, with all features intact (including "online" play - I suppose arcade vs. home will be possible);

    However, this is how I see the situation;

    First, it is not an open Internet thing, but a closed network of some sort - think AOL or Compuserve, pre-WWW. The user is charged a monthly fee, or even fees based on individual connection instances.

    Japan is a very small country, geographically, and given that the service is limited to its geographical breadth, lag is less of an issue than with standard worldwide internet applications -

    however, I would suppose that it's still very much an issue, since any lag whatsoever in any respectable fighting game would spell disaster, and even in Japan, I doubt that there are lag-free solutions, even on such a limited scale.

    I don't think it's taken very "seriously" on a competition-level, but rather as something that could work in the future, at present being little more than an amusing gimmick; even because, from what I hear, top Japan players live fairly close to each other, given the country's small area, so competitions for any given game can be arranged without the kind of hassle that would be present in organizing a tournament in countries such as the US or Brazil, for example, where those that are considered top players, or even people sharing an interest for a particular game sometimes live thousands of miles away from each other. Another issue is the profusion and abundance in arcades over there - recently I met a VF fan from Japan that said there are competition-heavy specialized arcades almost every block in certain Tokyo districts;

    So, summing up, I think that as of yet, and for some time still to come, both 2d and 3d fighting games, or for that matter any sort of game that relies on fraction-of-second unnerring precision is unfeasible in an online environment given the technology constraints. Then again, some of this is speculation (I haven't actually been to Japan to test currently applied online technology), but even allowing a margin of error, I think it's a coherent line of reasoning.

  6. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    because from what I know of,

    there have been online matches(with DC) lag free.
    I have it on good authority that 3rd strike is lag free

    i know what u mean abt the specialized arcade. In asia, they are everywhere.

    Say this arcade is good at this game, and that arcade is good at that game. That's the fun:)

    We hop n hop n hop.
    Heck, I did it when i was a kid.
    I still do it when I am back for holidays.

    Anyway..going to arcades, seeing the look on their sorry faces....more fun than staring at their nick.

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'Ride the Legacy'
  7. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    Hmm I find it very interesting that VOOT works on a 33k modem in Japan though admittadly I'm not sure of the "lag factor"

    Anyone ever used a satalite modem for gaming? just curious,I can't even get a cable modem in my area so I love to hear the fairytales of lag free gaming "sob"

    yes I know this post isn't entirely relevent to the one posted above it I'll try to make more of an effort the next time I post :( I may actually use the spell check too
  8. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Hmm, regarding VOOT, I've been watching a lot of replays of online battles (Japanese) and they look great. However, so far I've seen mostly heavy weaponry virtuaroid (mechs) combat and not all that many melee fights. Perhaps that's something to do with lag? I mean... It's already very well possible to establish a good prediction/estimation/correction code in situations similar to first and third person shooters, especially in ranged combat. Combine that with a private network (Japanese games are played on private networks, something that can work especially with a small geographic location as Japan) and it should work great. Hell, Duke Nukem 3d and Doom 2 on the PC runs extremely well on PC Modem-to-Modem and practically the only option is 9600 baud (much slower than 28.8k).

    For starters, establishing a server on "the net" or at least a system of mini-host servers... Too much to worry about. Especially in fighting games where things are very sensitive.

    It's got potential for direct play (direct, uninterrupted link between two connections), though that'll promote just an extension of local access as then long distance is a factor (at least if we're talking home conversion).

    I've made my rant on and on again about VF's 60fps sensitivity just being impractical to implement these days on "net play" (playing via the net anyways). If there was to be no prediction/correction to be done, I estimate this is about 16.666666666... ping to actually work with no error. Of course some compensation can be made up, but people would probably end up playing machi naturally with the connection if there were issues with close combat. Argument goes on and on, latency is another issue (though I find ping to be a bigger indicator than latency as I just tend to assume that a lot of people, but not everyone, has at least a decently solid connection as is, and those that don't typically are stuck by the wayside with almost no hope until they find a new connection).

    Now, if we're talking arcade to arcade... And let's say it's broadband, that's another issue because such a thing would be expensive as hell. Or at least "too expensive" for most arcades to actually implement until there are a lot of games running on such a system. It's gonna be a few years most likely before arcades would adopt something, a few years after an initial release and official testing anyways. I doubt arcade chains would get in on it, but the privately owned arcades have some chance.... For it to happen in the US, don't know... but that's mostly the perspective I was speaking of. Novelty arcades will probably have it... who knows, it's in the future, but it's unlikely to reach half of us if it ever happens and even then, still some issues unless it was a broadband closed network (oh, that would be so nice).

    Anyways, another unorganized rant...


    P.S. Of course I could be wrong about all of this, and it would be nice to be proven wrong, but we have yet to see.

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