Programmable inputs / Esoteric frame data Q&A

KoD, knowing that catch throws will eat standing attacks if these are "caught" during their execution frames (and not the hit/active frames), could you please find out what's the execution time for Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif?

 

Updated to show whiff times for throw and low throw.

Franz, various catch throw timings are on my list of stuff to test.

Sorias, the trading hits question is interesting, but I'm not sure if I can test it very reliably without 2player programmability. The aoi tenchi frames until guard is on the list.

I know this stuff kinda trickles out slowly, its mostly when I have "free" time / what strikes my fancy, sorry about that.

 

The trading hits question got answered in some post Myke made a while back with a translated Arcadia interview.

If two hits land at the same time, greater attack power wins... if attack power is the same then longer execution time wins (i.e. whichever attack started first), and if attack power and execution time are both the same then you get a double hit. I'm too lazy to scan every move list and make sure... but I think that limits to basically only getting double hits in mirror matches and on low punches (except lion), in which case recovery times are also the same, so the characters will be at neutral after any possible double hit.

 

Updated to show details of stagger recovery. I know most of this stuff is esoteric, but in this case, if you haven't paid attention to the joystick icon, START WATCHING IT. I suck at struggling, and I can struggle out of doku 2k in training now if I pay attention . . .

 

About struggling... reading your data, it sounds like diagonals are registering as simply two button presses, of the related directional inputs, since there's only actually 4 buttons underneath the joystick.

So, 478 doesn't work because you're only ever pressing the physical button 4 and 8... there is no third button corresponding to the diagonal. But 479 works fine, because all three physical buttons 4, 8, and 6 are getting pressed. I would curious to know how two opposing diagonals responds... does "73" count as only two inputs, or does the game allow you to do a 3-button stagger with those two diagonals, since the physical buttons 4, 8, 2, and 6 have all been pressed.

 

No, if what you are saying was true, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif would work, because there are 3 switches being triggered ( forward, down, and back), but it doesn't work.

 

I will double check on the simultaneous button press thing (also stuff like P+K release P ), but I'm pretty certain it's just 1 input per frame.

Yeah, it does look like all inputs go towards struggling, at least for evade purposes. I guess I could test by doing a single P in the window & checking to see if it results in an attempted P that gets MC'ed.

 

Looks like mostly common sense regarding button presses - only one input per frame. Simultaneous presses count as 1 input (even if they're released at different times); pressing a button while another is held does count as a new input. So drumming == good. Edited first post to hopefully clarify that.

Regarding the other question, I was not able to get a punch to come out even if P was pressed in the last couple of frames of the stagger window; PP was necessary. PP at the very beginning of the window did not come out, however. This makes sense if the window is fixed + bigger than the command buffer.

 

Updated to show details of why you cant multiple-escape wolfs DM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

 

Are you absolutely certain that you were getting the side throw escape animation every time? It looks notably different from the front throw escape animation. I can do a quick /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and escape the front throw everytime, too.

The problem with programatically testing only a single series of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is that, with a human controlling one of the characters, the overlap between the throw and throw escape windows will vary. If you've got an idea to remedy this, i'd be happy to test it.

Mashing shouldn't spoil the results - if it's early, it will just throw wolf. The inputs definitely weren't late, I checked the replay and the mashing continued into the successful throw animation. The mashing was of the pattern /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gifP]+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (held 3 frames) (neutral frame) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (held 3 frames) which, even if a frame is being dropped, will satisfy the 2-frames-to-TE rule. It also should certainly fit 2 inputs in the TE window unless it's abnormally small (like 5 frames, in which case I doubt you can multiple TE anyway).

Maybe i'll post the video tonight anyway.

 

KoD, you can't multiple throw escape a side throw right? And that is the reason you can't multiple escape a Wolf DMPK that ends up being a side throw? You have to guess right (on your one input) to escape right?

Sorry, I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding what's going on exactly...

BTW, thanks for that stagger testing... That's useful stuff for sure! I always had a strange feeling I was escaping faster doing a 464646 etc. motion as opposed to doing 360s on the stick. It definitely seems as though 4646 inputs are worth more as far as breaking the stagger.

 

Yeah, you understand what's going on with wolf dmpk.

I guess I could test multiescape normal side throws with like jeff K+G ~ P+G but i'm 99% sure of the answer. You have to do the (single) correct escape.

It's not really guessing, btw - there's enough time to see which side of your character the opponent is on, you just have to have the discipline and pay attention.

 

Well, color me confused. Tested side throws after jeff k+g, and it really seems like you can multi-escape them.

Nevertheless, I'm seeing like 2 failures for every 3 successes when mashing out of the side-hitting versions of wolf's dm p+k:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xB-KwriZGMs"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xB-KwriZGMs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

slightly higher quality version at

http://blip.tv/file/1013044/

There are like 4 or 5 failures in a row in the next-to-last round, and yet I don't see anything different about the throw escape inputs there.

 

multi escape for dm P+K??

I thought it's only for one direction.

 

When I tested it multiescapes seemed to work fine on Wolfs DM P+K, the method I used to test it wasn't as reliable as yours though KoD.

 

KoD, would you be able to figure out how long it takes to exit flamingo?