PS2 Nitpicking

Discussion in 'Console' started by CreeD, Jan 25, 2002.

  1. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    While the rugal/darkside thread is making me sick, it's mostly because they're either talking out of their ass or throwing around a lot of terms that have nothing to do with describing how the game truly looks. The big bitch - aliasing - ... it's a little premature to comment on it when you can't see the game in motion. I'm with Darkside on that one. Screenshots are, at best, 1/10th the size of a normal tv screen/monitor, so it's goofy to say you're going to pick out 3-pixel jaggies from that. Also, there really is aliasing in the arcade, it was one of the first things I noticed. Characters definitely shimmer, and I'm seeing this on the high res screen. Anyway, fuck my two cents, I hope that argument on aliasing rages on forever... elsewhere. Let's skip the aliasing and just talk about poly reduction. What I wanted to mention in this thread is based on the new PS2 footage.

    Wolf's stage - good enough, probably lighting is toned down, but the crowd's in there.

    Jeffry - for some reason everything looks too bright and washed out. I know it's a bright stage, but it's almost like they said "let's throw in some fog for the hell of it so everything is two shades lighter". The stage compared to the black gi of akira looks ... off. The sand FX are there, but the way it sprays and settles looks different. I can live with that.

    Akira stage: looks fine, a simple stage anyway.
    Kage stage: looks fine to me, fewer leaves on the ground maybe, but then again I always though there were too many. The falling leaves look great.

    Jacky stage: I see two spotlights, each one tracks the character rather than roving crazily. Architecturally the stage is fine, but it's a bunch of boxes, you'd expect that. Slightly less impressive than the arcade.

    Sarah: wooog. They made it an overcast day with one of those cheezy blowing dust effects that reminds me of super nintendo final fantasy game. The dust I can live with, but there are no longer lightning bolts, or if they're there .. it's less noticeable and dramatic. Instead there are flashes whenever you hear thunder.
    Annnnnnd the big loss: I'm almost positive the crumbling walls and whatnot in the background are goners.

    EDIT: YAY! I was wrong! Nevermind. I saw a bolt hit a column and destroy it just now. Oops.


    Pai's stage: I see the big fish... is it smaller, or just further away? There seems to be fewer fishes, but who knows - maybe at select moments the bg is flooded with them. The floor's got fish swimming under it, and I think this one was pretty well done.

    Lau's stage: during the prefight camera flyby, it looks great. The reflections in the puddles are there. When the fight actually starts, the floor looks greyer and washed out, but again the reflections are there. It's hard to say if it's just the BG reflections or also the characters, but I think the characters are also reflected. You'd have to be pretty picky to notice this during a match. Probably this stage is a fine translation. The greying out is probably my imagination.

    Shun: Looks fine, from what I can see.

    Lion: Also looks fine, the snow is deep and squishy .. was there fog in the BG before?

    Aoi: This stage is going to be fine, I'm sure. It doesn't have zillions of polys and fancy fx, just non-transparent water.

    Vanessa: Definitely something is wrong here. The distant BG houses look like over-stretched bitmaps, there's weird cloudiness/brightness where there wasn't before (to hide the houses?!). Otherwise the cage is fine, the rippling water is fine, and I like it.

    Lei: another one that's going to be fine.

    General stuff: Characters look ok, and look especially good in motion.
    I may change my mind once I see them at 6 inches tall rather than 2, but the flowing clothes and waving hair and all that good stuff has been maintained, and the animation is fluid.

    Lifebars definitely look washed out. Why? Surely something that could have been corrected easily.

    Costume colors are all there, we see pink'n'black akira. Yay! This must mean you pick your colors rather than having to reach a specific dan, since the guys playing in these movies are clearly -30 dan.
     
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    OK, I'll bite. No comments for the Darkside/Rugal debate, though I actually enjoyed reading it, heh heh.

    As for the stages, I have to say that on the most part the PS2 versions seem somehow different from the arcade. Not necessarily worse, thankfully, but definitely different.

    I base my observations on the IGN clips posted in the Media section. They're short, but they are direct feeds and you can really hear the music. Worth downloading if you're impatient or with a good connection, I guess.

    Akira - Sky seemed brighter than arcade, and the Dojo itself seemed somehow more sparse. I'm guessing it's the absence of the burning torches?

    Wolf - Less green, and it seems like there are less spectators, but it could be my imagination.

    Lion - I agree with Chris in that there seems to be less snow, but I can't be sure. There's noticable fogging in the background, but I actually like it as it adds to the atmosphere and seems appropriate given the snow.

    Jeffry - I think Jeffry's stage looks better!! The water seems more realistic looking, the sky has gradients, the clouds are more noticable, and the stage as a whole seems more clean looking.

    Pai - The water is bluer than arcade, and the PS2 gives me the impression of having less detail.

    Aoi - I guess they're the same?

    Kage - No comments about the stage, but the reflection on Kage's blue costume is terrible...not so much lighting as much as color texture mapped, it seems.

    Lei Fei - It doesn't seem as bright/yellow as arcade.

    Lau - Somehow, the PS2 version seems better.

    Shun - Didn't realize the BGM for this stage is quite good!

    Vanessa - Definitely different, and I'm guessing there's a 2D bitmap in there somewhere. The overall effect, to me, has changed from "moody yellow" in arcade to "watercolor Italy" in PS2...

    Sarah - I never really liked the crumbling buildings or lighting much in arcade, so I prefer what I saw over it. Less cheesy, more expressive.


    Overall, watching these PS2 clips have made me realize how little attention I've paid to the graphics in the arcade. Seriously, when I watch those Japanese/Korean clips or while at the arcade, I study what the players are doing with the characters. When I watch the IGN/Gamespot clips, I totally ignore the players/characters and just focus on the background and BGM, LOL.
     
  3. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    one of the very first things i also noticed about vf4 was shimmering. seems like the skins of most players were very shiny, something i posted somewhere else also.
     
  4. Darknight

    Darknight Active Member

    I'm bowing out of that one. Rugal is beyond rediculous now. Just wanted to chime in on one small correction. The reflection isn't there on Lau's stage. Basically you have a black shadow on the ground and you have a black representation of you as the reflection, but as for the actual detail, it's not there.
     
  5. Yamcha

    Yamcha Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty impressed myself with Jacky's stage. I thought it was gonna be toned way down. I can't remember how many spotlights and all that are the the arcade version, but it's definitely more than the PS2 one. Is it just me or do the spotlights kind of shimmer on the characters more (as opposed to being more subdued in the arcade)? Jeffrey's chest in particular looks notably shiny.

    The new stage in the water is all right...doesn't seem that special, but heck it's a new stage so can't complain. Water looks more like mercury or something, but no big deal. Also Aoi's hakama seem slightly less mobile than in the arcade.
     
  6. Darknight

    Darknight Active Member

    Actually there are only two spotlights in the arcade. What's missing from what I saw is the red light sources in each of the corners. While the light is there, they don't reflect on the characters.
     
  7. Kaede

    Kaede Active Member

    Arcade lightsources I saw in Jacky's stage arcade version.

    Moon
    4 red corner lights
    2 spotlights on the characters
    1-2 spotlights from the helicopters on the characters and the buildings.
     
  8. Rugal

    Rugal Well-Known Member

    I hadn't noticed the moon spotlight /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
    But there are two red lights (the 4 flash alternatively) and there are two spotlights from the lights above and the 2 helicopters. Then there are the collision lights. That makes 7 or so in the arcade at one time, plus the 10 Million polys. Naomi 2 is awesome
     
  9. CIN

    CIN Well-Known Member

    Obviously the moon in an infinite light source. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

    And yes there are also the collision lights which I forgot :p

    So that makes 6+ lightsources in that stage. Pretty incredible if you ask me.

    I hope to have the PS2 version by this week. As a whole the PS2 version seems to be really good even though not arcade perfect. But which VF was arcade perfect? So it is gameplay all the way!!!! sice the gfx are good enough for home consoles. Infact from what I have seen VF4 is the best looking PS2 game to date. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  10. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    Well, I take my entire post back. I finally had my VF4 delivered and have been playing it for a few hours, but I can already definitely say that the PS2 version is subpar to the arcade in almost every facet. Every character has been downgraded...the lighting on the characters doesn't seem as dynamic (i.e. texture mapped than a true reflection), there is noticable loss in detail, and overall some characters just seemed really strange. The stages are a similar story. The arcade stages are all better; the only exception, for me, is MAYBE Sarah's stage, as I always found the arcade version a little too moody (and gimmicky).

    As a whole, it does seem as though the PS2 version suffers from more aliasing issues than arcade, but I didn't really think jaggies became a problem. The only thing that really bothered me is the shimmering floor on Kage's autumn stage...when the camera rotates, the floor makes me slightly nauseous.

    I use standard A/V cables for my import PS2, but I do have composite cables for my domestic PS2. Will give it a try later on to see if there are any differences.


    On another note, is it just me or does the CPU A.I. seem a tad easier than arcade? Akira and Dural are monsters though on the most difficult setting.
     
  11. soulmachine

    soulmachine Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    I'm curious if arcade-Akira has as much of a wooden Nutcracker/Pez dispenser head/face as he does in the PS2 version? How does Lau look so Shenmue-tastic while Akira looks plain bizarre. Sorry, haven't spent much time on the arcade version so I just don't know. I will investigate more this week though.

    Put your hand in the puppet head.
     
  12. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    I was just noticing the same thing... lau looks great, you don't notice any differences really, while akira looks like he's got dark acne scars. Also his eyes and mouth seem to move kind of weird during one of his intros. It makes him look like he has rubber features.
    Another character who looks just 'off' is jerky.. I think it's his eyebrows or even his eyelashes.
     
  13. Rugal

    Rugal Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    Akira looks like he has 2 black eyes in the PS2 version.
    I've just has it with the bloody game anyway. The friggin AI for Kumite is total bullshit. Reverses all your throws and counters all moves on the harder fighters. And for what? a few retarded extras? No thanks, bloody jaggy piece-a-shit conversion is going in the bin. Back to the arcade /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
     
  14. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    Well...it's not as good as the arcade, but it's definitely "good enough." Plus it's Ver. C.

    As for the Kumite mode...it doesn't seem too hard for me or for some others, shrug.


    Other PS2 nitpicking:

    - When you press Start to go to the main menu, the "Virtua Fighter 4" is pronounced with a Japanese accent. But the voices for the sub-menus are in silky smooth American accent. AM2 should've tried to be consistent...

    - What's up with the intro's shoddy framerate and blur? The least Sega could've done is redo the intro instead of what I'm guessing is simply inserting the mpeg from earlier on.

    - I'm not sure I like the PS2 ending than the arcade ending...
     
  15. soulmachine

    soulmachine Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    I'm not so bummed about the framerate of the intro as I am that it looks like it was run through a vaseline filter. Oh, and I wouldn't call that ending much of an ending. I think AM2 has something against endings. I wonder who put a gun to Suzuki's head to get him to allow endings in VF Kids. :p

    The other thing that bothers me is the epileptic twitchiness of the edit mode screen. Wish they would have nailed that one down.
     
  16. Killbomb

    Killbomb Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    Well, one thing that's bugging me is the inability to skip the stage intros, especially during kumite. Other than that, it looks fine and plays great. Of course, I never got to play the arcade version but I suspect that many people who buy the US version will have never had that pleasure either. Yeah, it may not look arcade perfect but at least we have the game in our homes and that's all that really matters. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  17. Killbomb

    Killbomb Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    Forgot to include this in the last post...but did you guys notice the video wall on one of the buildings during the credits? Little movies of Lei Fei doing a kata and several characters battling are playing. Perhaps the ability to view them full screen is hidden somewhere...
     
  18. soulmachine

    soulmachine Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    I believe that one reason you can't skip the stage intros (until you get to the character intros) is because the character data is still streaming in. You can hear your DVD-drive working overtime during those moments, so I think it is a necessary evil.
     
  19. Killbomb

    Killbomb Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    Yeah...I was kinda thinking the same thing actually. It's still frustrating though especially after you've lost 3 or 4 fights in a row. Hehe.
     
  20. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: I take it all back, arcade definitely > PS2

    Oh, I thought it was just me not being able to skip intros. Irritating indeed.
    On mine it takes about a full round's worth of time (20-30 seconds) to load each kumite match. But I can't complain.

    Rugal - kumite has to be cheap, any other form of ai is tough. I will say that while the reversals are bullshit, the throw escapes aren't... I have a favorite lau throw (d/f, d/f+P+G) and even if I do it unpredictably, it'll start to get escaped. The instant I switch the b,f+P+G, the CPU stops psychically escaping.

    The thing that frustrates me is psychic blocking.. aGRFDfd. NOBODY can guess correctly 7 times in a row at the end of the round when they have only 4 pixels of life left. Not even Chibita.

    Did you guys know that the Tetsujin were playing on the PS2 even during the early alpha stages of VF4? There's a pic of them playing on an early version of the water stage. If you think the jaggies are bad now!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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