Punishing rising sweep

Hey all,

I've noticed playing online that some people will spam rising attacks and consistently perform either a rising mid or a sweep. Using Brad, this can be great, because you get a free hit and another go at it by countering the rising mid.

What I'd like to know is how can Brad punish the rising sweep? Is it possible to counter hit the opponent out of this move, or is there special priority given to the rising attacks?

I read in this forum that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is effective at stuffing this, but I haven't had any luck getting it to work. The best I've been able to come up with is to range myself just far enough back that I can sway out and then come back in after the sweep with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif .

Any other tips or advice would be much appreciated!

--Deathsushi

 

Go into dojo, set the cpu to do a low rising attack, knock the cpu down (try to knock it down with the same move over and over, it matters if the opponent is face down/up, head towards/away, etc.) Now, when the cpu rises to attack press P+K.
Too early? Do it a little bit slower. Too late? Do it a little bit faster.

These "techniques" or "tricks" (whatever you want to call it) can not be learned over-night by most people out there. Even if you master just that training exercise in one sitting, there are more settings to master (rising speed=slow, medium, fast; rise in place; roll away; roll towards/away from background; delayed rising attack) and then you still have to train to spot if your opponent is going to do a low or a mid rising kick.
I'm still not at the level where I can see which rising attack is coming, I just guess.
These "tricks" take time to master and even then it's not for certain that your opponent is going to do a rising attack in the first place. Specially after you start to stuff/reverse his rising attack, a good opponent will start to mix up wether he will or won't do a rising attack.

The best tip I can give you is practice. It's the only way to get stronger in this game. Other games are a little more forgiving and you can just pick up the controller and start kicking ass the same day or within a week but not VF.

Sorry for the cliche but practice does make (closest to) perfect.

 

I think everyone guesses Tony. I'm not sure you really have time to identify which rising attack they will use and try to react accordingly. I think they look too similar and the whole thing happens too fast. I think it is a situation where you have to use your yomi and predict what they will go for.

 

It's possible to see whether it's a mid or low rising kick. It takes time to see it consistently but it's possible.

 

Thanks Tony,

This is good advice. If VF was similar to many games that can be picked up and played well quickly, I would not have as much interest in playing it as I do. The depth of the VF series is what makes it so great, as well as so difficult to master. This is a good thing!

As for guessing on the mid/low rising kick, I think part of it is also about training your opponent to use a specific attack on rise (or not to use an attack at all). Every time you block a rising attack, you train your opponent slightly not to use that same attack the next time around. If I successfully reverse my opponent's rising mid kick, I am training them fairly significantly not to use that attack again next time they get down. Like you said, good opponent's will mix it up so that you can't just read everything..

I guess this is part of what I'm trying to figure out - the best way to train given types of attacks, and punish when I successfully anticipate.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

u can also sorta, trick them into using a rising attack and punish them for it.

I like to stay RIGHT OUTSIDE there midattack range so they end up using an attack, dash out if i have to, and quickly counter with a 2K+G. Iv also managed to do a 66K on them but thats a little harder and can only be done with long rising animations.

Oh and eventually you can just feel that there going to guard when they get up, in which case i quickly grab them. Most of the time i have no idea if i just guessed or somehow saw a minor thing and used insane reflexs... its to fast paced to THINK you just gotta GO GO GO.

Btw i don't suggest using 66K because its so freaking risky if they block it or it doesnt reach lol but 2K+G is pretty safe but hard to space correctly.

anyway i learned rising punishment from just playing a lot. I think using a comp might be silly, since a lot of psychology goes into it and you can train your opponent to react certain ways a lot of times. And i agree that you can tell the difference between low and middle, its just really really hard and the reflex has to be insanely fast, almost instinctual so until it comes go with your psychology instincts and try to train/trick your opponent.

 

However, undelayed rising attacks are usually safe on block, including sweeps (right now im not gonna go thru movelists to see if theres one that isnt). The rule of thumb for rising attacks is that undelayed ones are -6 and delayed ones are -15. Attack height doesnt matter.

With Brad though, if you learn to see the rising attack height you could always reverse the mid one and maybe jump over the low one.

 

More observations I've made as I've played good Brad players:

Reaction and reflexes is really only a small piece of the battle. If you can lead the opponent down a certain path by baiting them, you've won a good chunk of the battle. One cute trick Eiyu hit me with the other night was entering LD and cancelling out of that into /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to reverse my rising mid. Good yomi.

So, I guess here's my follow-up question. What are the best ways for Brad to punish a blocked rising kick? For the purposes of this argument, let's assume that they were delayed so that they actually _can_ be punished. I've been using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, but I'm not a huge fan of that, because it doesn't leave me with much advantage, and it's slow to come out. Any other suggestions?

 

The delayed ones are -15 on block so punish mids with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + combo and lows with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

 

Ah thanks McMystery!

I guess this is the ideal place for me to look into frame data to get the answers to my own questions (tip of the hat to KoD).

I've always done /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to punish low risers, but it sounds like that's not really the best way to go. I'll go study - thanks!