Question about Stances

Discussion in 'Lei' started by Marlow, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. Marlow

    Marlow Active Member

    PSN:
    Redwin6411
    XBL:
    Marlow0822
    Hello,

    Now that I can finally play this game on Xbox One, I've decided to learn it. Lei seems like he could be a fun character, but one question I have is what are the advantages/disadvantages for the different stances? I've read through the beginner thread, which does a great job of listing the moves for each stance. I've also seen the flow chart which shows which moves put Lei in which stance, which is incredibly helpful. What I'm trying to understand now is more the "why do I want to be in stance X?" side of things. Is there some list out there, or would someone be able make a quick list, of the pro's and con's of each stance and maybe some examples of when working into a certain stance would be helpful? Thanks.
     
    oneida likes this.
  2. oneida

    oneida Long Arm of the Lau Silver Supporter

    PSN:
    oneida_vf
    XBL:
    oneida1
    If I have time today I'll look through lei's stuff and see what I can parse on my own, I'm not familiar with his stances but in general the idea is 'what options does this stance have?' and that will tell you exactly what the advantages are.

    for instance...
    go here: http://virtuafighter.com/commands/list?ver=5fsa&chara=lei
    let's look at his 2P+K+G stance.
    from here he gets a P,P+K string which is high-mid, the mid is +9 on guard and exits the stance. That's really cool.
    he has a 16f mid, K, that's safe enough to fuzzy guard on block (-4) and if it hits counter-hit or normal hit you get a knockdown. maybe a combo starter, too? seems great.
    but both of these are linear, so lets look at some of your options that beat evades...
    2K is full circular, a bit slow, but it knocks down even on normal hit. not all sweeps do that, so that's good.

    There's some other options, including the ability to change into stances, but that seems like a solid primer of how to use 2P+K+G. you have a fast, safe mid for fishing for counter-hit, you have a high-mid string that leads to a frame trap so you can set up a counter-hit (out of stance, though!), and you have a low circular to beat opponents who either try to block those options standing or tries to evade them.
     
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  3. Marlow

    Marlow Active Member

    PSN:
    Redwin6411
    XBL:
    Marlow0822
    Thanks, that's the type of stuff I'm trying to figure out.
     
  4. oneida

    oneida Long Arm of the Lau Silver Supporter

    PSN:
    oneida_vf
    XBL:
    oneida1
    five things you should check for each move
    - how fast is it?
    - high? mid? low?
    - how much trouble am I if it's guarded?
    - what do I get if it hits counter-hit?
    - can it be evaded?
    should tell you 99% of what you should know about the move, 99% of the time ;) if you're just learning the game, don't sweat all the details just yet, but good idea to keep this stuff in the back of your head at least.

    i lit up the batsignal on one of the community facebook pages so there should be more info soon.
     
    cmase1989 likes this.
  5. cmase1989

    cmase1989 Well-Known Member

    lei fei is a VERY ambitious character to start with. to start i would focus on his out of stance moves that are important and the games fundamentals.
    check what moves leave you at small advantages(-5 or less) and practice fuzzy guarding. you can set the dummy to throw or mid after blocking. You can perform a fuzzy by cancelling a crouch dash into a guard(33g). when you see a yellow flash that is a counterhit and you get nitaku, mix up throw with a CH launcher, in lei feis case its a move you buffer from a crouch, you can do it by hitting 334p. It also spaces your opponant out(so does his 66p). This allows you to stick out feis 33p to fish for a confirmable combo. Be sure to stick out 3k as well to catch backdashes. Mix these options up with throws and with your own movement so you can focus on the games fundamentals before getting into the more character specific stuff. I dont think this game is nearly as difficult as people make it seem, but I do think its an easy game to learn the wrong way. Once you do get into the stancey stuff his bokutai 3k, hai shiki p+k and his dokuritsu 6p+k+g options are all very strong.
     
    Kruza likes this.
  6. cmase1989

    cmase1989 Well-Known Member

    mistake: use lei feis 4k, most chars its 3k. thanks og23!
     
  7. oneida

    oneida Long Arm of the Lau Silver Supporter

    PSN:
    oneida_vf
    XBL:
    oneida1
    @cmase1989 what makes hai shiki p+k stronger than k from the same stance?
     
  8. Marlow

    Marlow Active Member

    PSN:
    Redwin6411
    XBL:
    Marlow0822
    Thanks. The way I learn things is typically to grab a notebook and try to write things down, to help my understanding and stay organized. I plan on starting with a simple "fundamental" approach, and then slowly integrating the stances as I go.
     
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  9. cmase1989

    cmase1989 Well-Known Member

    @oneida, it covers a great range, you can charge it as well and maybe its just me but i find it really hard to evade the charged version. I'm not sure to call it better, but it's a tool I often so Fei players going to. Fei has a few combos that end in k+g, p which leave him in stance. From there I believe you can get a full charge to pressure tech rollers. I should mention i don't really play much Lei Fei though but I like to help where I can. A few other important OUT of stance things i should mention is 1k+g being good against tech rollers as well(lands a combo on CH and is only -2 on hit which is pretty decent for a low) but also it wall staggers. Any time you get a wall stagger with Lei Fei 4,3p+k is very strong. It causes a wall splat and is very fast making it either incredibly difficult if not impossible to stagger. 66p+k is very strong against the wall as well since you get a wall stun into a 466p+k side crumble combo.
     
  10. cmase1989

    cmase1989 Well-Known Member

    Universally every character and matchup can be boiled down to winning with P, an elbow class move(14f mid), a sidekick(usually a 3k, in some cases 4k), a 2p, throw, fast CH launcher or fast safe launcher/combo starter, movement and throws. Those are kindof the universal fundamentals to start with before getting into the more character specific stuff. And awesome! Hope you enjoy the game and you seem like you would pick things up quickly.
     
  11. og23

    og23 Well-Known Member

    Oneida's bat signal has been answered. I can help you here. I'll go over the basic stance stuff I know. Keep in mind I say basic, but Lei is a pretty complex character so this might be a long read:

    First stace is 8P+K+G, you'll notice first thing that this stance parries all single limbed punch attacks. This is somewhat of a recurring theme with the character, he can use a lot of his stances to disrespect an opponent in some way or another. Keep in mind that 8P+K+G only works for punches, kicks will knock him out of it, however it can be safer than other parries and sabakis since he doesn't get counter hit when he gets hit by a move he can't parry. Although you should keep in mind that some kicks have weird properties when they hit him out of it (like Vanessa and Brad's 6_K giving them a combo without a counter hit) Remember that the counter is not frame one, and if you get punched before the counter activates, you'll either just get hit standing or fall to the ground most of the time. As for the actual moves, the ones that currently stand out the most to me are KP and P+K, KP is a stance transition that hits mid mid mid and goes into what is in my opinion his strongest stance, and P+K is a good mid into a hit throw that leaves you in pretty good okizeme positioning. 2K is a decent low that goes into a stagger on hit, and also takes him into his strongest stance, so it's a pretty decent move too, punishable though.

    *Fun fact, if you knock down Taka and go into 8P+K+G, you can parry like 90% of his get up attacks, the threat of wake up kick against him is almost removed entirely, so you can pretty much run mixups without any sort of second thought most of time.

    Next stance is 4P+K+G, it's decent at best. He has an 11 frame P from this stance, and a guardbreak (P+K). He also has a good counter hit confirmable mid (KK) and the same goes for his low (2KK) I think he has a full circular as well, however I can't remember, either way, in case of evades, a general tip is that you can just stance cancel to throw off evade timings and continue the pressure from there, this is pretty important since a lot of his stances either have high or really slow circulars, or some of them have no circulars at all. The stance by itself isn't really that noteworthy but it's good to add variation to your offense, so you should use it anyway.

    Then there's 2P+K+G, the MVP of his stances in my opinion, so much cheap shit in here, I don't know where to begin. The most noteworthy things are the facts that his jab is 10 frames in this stance, and it automatically ducks most highs since he's so low to the ground. His K from this stance is a safe launcher that puts him in 8P+K+G, and his K+G is a low crushing EX High full circular that isn't too slow, and keeps him in 2P+K+G. He has P+K as well, this is a lunge punch that hits mid and has really good range, it's also chargable, and on full charge it is a super heavy guard stagger, but this is more or less a gimmick. His other really strong option is simply pressing down while in 2P+K+G. I'll be calling it 2P+K+G(2) from here on out.

    2P+K+G(2) is like a mini stance of sorts, he quickly slams the ground and during the animation you have access to new moves, but you can only do them while he's slamming the ground. The most notable thing here is that his ground slam can DUCK UNDER MIDS. Not all mids mind you, but there's a pretty notable chunk. The general rule of thumb is that if a mid either hits grounded or has really long range, they'll hit him, but any other mid is fair game, since most elbows fit this description, your opponent really has to be worried about what moves they use when you enter this stance. His 3K in this stance is +5 on block and even gives you a small combo on the lighter characters like Eileen. His P+K is an EX High launcher that ducks highs and it safe on block, and his K+G is a half circular mid that hops over lows and can even net you a small combo in some situations or on CH. It goes without saying, but because of the mid ducking property, people who don't know how to deal with this stance might try to default to 2P, depending on how you entered this stance, you can take a big advantage of this.

    As for his 1P+K+G, I never really used it much with I played him, but it's pretty useful depending on your style. The animation moves him pretty far back, and you can use this to your advantage and make a lot of move whiff at a range. His P from this stance is a sabaki that beats a lot of stuff, and his K avoids lows. His 2K is a really fast full circular low sweep that knocks down on regular hit. Lastly, you can press G to cancel most of his stances, but when you do it with this stance, it serves as a transition into his backturned stance, which has a lot of really good options there too.

    So there's the basics of what are his most important stances, he has a few other stances that I didn't talk about and his backturn has a lot of good moves from it too, but if you're starting out with the character these are the stances that I think you should acclimate yourself with first. I know it's long, but I hope you don't get intimidated, once you start adding this stuff into your game, stance transitions become second nature. Other than that good luck with Lei man! He's a super fun character and I hope this helps!
     
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  12. Marlow

    Marlow Active Member

    PSN:
    Redwin6411
    XBL:
    Marlow0822
    That's perfect. Thanks for the quick bat signal response. It might take me a bit to go through all of this (and through the other guides in the forums) and complete my own personal write up, but I'm really looking forward to it.
     
    oneida likes this.
  13. oneida

    oneida Long Arm of the Lau Silver Supporter

    PSN:
    oneida_vf
    XBL:
    oneida1
    If you can enjoy this part, you're going to love this game. There's no ceiling. I haven't stopped learning for the last 4 years.
     
  14. cmase1989

    cmase1989 Well-Known Member

    The only mid rising he has that isn't a punch is when Taka is lying face down head towards I'm pretty sure. He instead wakes up with a headbutt. It is however linear and you can evade it and punish on reaction.
     
    og23 likes this.
  15. og23

    og23 Well-Known Member

    Thank you sir. I remember he had one, but I forgot which position it was
     
  16. Dhaval Katbamna

    Dhaval Katbamna Well-Known Member Content Manager Jean

    PSN:
    bkatbamna
    idk if anyone told you this yet, but abuse the hell out of 2p+k+g, p,p. Shits +9 on guard and NH, and the second hit CH guarantees 1p+k. And nobody (i use nobody loosely) know that shit
     
    cmase1989 likes this.
  17. cmase1989

    cmase1989 Well-Known Member

    I'm assuming you mean 2p+k+g, p, p+k? the PP string is high high and goes into stance, the p,p+k is high mid. But yeah very strong option.
     
  18. Dhaval Katbamna

    Dhaval Katbamna Well-Known Member Content Manager Jean

    PSN:
    bkatbamna
    yeah, u right. p,p+k is what I meant. Haven't played lei in like a year :(
     
    cmase1989 likes this.
  19. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    Lei is really complex character, and I would generally recommend against using him for as a starting player. But its your choice.

    Its been a really long time since I've played, and I only quickly skimmed over what had been written so far, but heres something:

    There are two main things about 1P+K+G stance.

    One is that it has a low sweep that knocks down on normal hit. This sort of thing can be very useful against certain players and mess with their defensive options. Meaning you can just quickly do 1P+K+G, 2K when you feel like it.

    Second is that 1P+K+G can be used as an in-depth option from 2P+K+G stance. If opponent has a move that would otherwise hit you out of 2P+K+G attacks (for example Akiras 14 frame low kick), you can instead enter this stance to make that attack whiff and then follow with either mid that gives you advantage on hit (Nehan P) or low sweep that knocks down on normal hit (nehan 2K). Those are two main options to use out of the stance anyway.

    The main use for 2P+K+G, P+K is in my opinion uncharged as a gap closer and techroll trap. It gives +3 on normal hit and hits mid, lunges across half the map in a flash. If opponent is fond of backdashing, you can use this quickly to close the gap and give you advantage. Also after certain combos that may or may not end in hai shiki (For example combos ending in K+G,P), you can wait a fraction of a second and use this on a techrolling opponent. You should almost never use the fully charged version due to how easy it is to dodge, unless you are using it as a techroll trap.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
    Kruza likes this.

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