Questions about changes of Akira from VF3tb to VF4

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by ReCharredSigh, Jan 25, 2002.

  1. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    since i'm just starting to pick up VF4, could some of you help me out here with my Akira questions:

    after a successful break guard, is the single jump kick still guarenteed?

    how bout after a stumble throw?

    is the super dashing elbow still guarenteed after a fake pull-in push-out?

    oh yeah, when i look through the VF4 general moves FAQ, it says that the stumble throw and fake pull-in push-out interrupt moves, does this mean that a throw executed during a strike execution using these throws will beat them out? i thought this wasn't possible in VF.

    i'm sure about the rest of the Akira stuff i could probably find out by trial and error, but i have just one more question:

    after a successful parry(b+P+K+G), is the SPoD guarenteed(assuming your opponent doesn't key in the escape)? this could be interesting, cause if more things that are slower than the SPoD are also guarenteed, intiative frames permitting, you might be able to hit with more punishment after the parry than possibly thought.

    any help would be nice, thanks.
     
  2. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    AFAIK the parry->spod is guaranteed... well, at least ShinZ and the Daioh guys eat it every time. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  3. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    break guard ---> SJK may not be guaranteed anymore, or it may not float as high. The combo that seems to be popular now is break guard --> b,f+P --> AS3 (the new DLC-like combo) --> ground punch.

    After stumble throw, SJK no longer floats really high, making is less than useful.
    A combo that seems to work every time is ST --> canned sgpm (tap d, f+P) --> m-dbpm. Also, ST, SDE, DLC may work on lighties. The ST could stand experimentation, so far the sgpm --> dbpm is all we hear about after it.

    After fake pull-in, push-out I don't think anything is guaranteed, but there are canned followups that the opponent must 'escape' sort of like dealing with a multithrow. For example, akira can do f,b+P+G ---> P+K and do a headbutt, and the opponent must tap f+G to block the headbutt. Or akira can tap up or down, then P+K to do a reverse bodycheck, which leads to an almost-guaranteed SDE --> DLC combo.
    The opponent must press u+G or d+G to prevent akira from getting behind them and trying it.

    The stumble throw doesn't interrupt moves, but the f,b+P+G is a catch throw (they were around in vf3, look at Taka or Wolf's f+P+G)... meaning it's unescapeable and will sometimes reach out and snatch the opponent during a move. The priority of catch throw is sort of unclear though, and you might as well use the f,b+P+G like a regular throw. If it looks like it occasionally lucks out and beats an attack, yay for you.

    After b+PKG spod is guaranteed. To make it worse, SPoD can no longer be escaped with d/f+P+G or other command. It's back to the way it was in VF2. Strangely, the command for the SPoD changed to b, d/f+P+G for the middle part.
     
  4. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    break guard ~ standing palm ~ P ~ double palm seems to be the break guard combo of choice in japan/taiwan

    also, (charge) b,f+P+K (guardbreaker) ~ standing palm ~ P ~ double palm is guaranteed (thanks to segaduck for pointing this out to me last night)

    f,b+P+G, P+K (headbutt) ~ doublepalm is guaranteed if the opponent doesn't block the headbutt (and you can just tap G, no need to tap f+G)
     
  5. LAU Abuser

    LAU Abuser Well-Known Member

    <font color=green>FeixaQ</font color=green>
    <font color=orange>break guard ~ standing palm ~ P ~ double palm seems to be the break guard combo of choice in japan/taiwan</font color=orange>

    i dun think its a 'combo'. In the daioh movie (Vanessa def Akira 3-2) although Akira begins with stumbling throw>sgpm(hits oppo)>SPoD (oppo blocked). My point here is if the sgpm can be combo'ed with dbpm, that Akira wouldn't use SPoD to followup his sgpm.

    <font color=orange>also, (charge) b,f+P+K (guardbreaker) ~ standing palm ~ P ~ double palm is guaranteed (thanks to segaduck for pointing this out to me last night)</font color=orange>

    Forgive my ignorance, is there any required timing for the P (aft standing palm)?
     
  6. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    "break guard ~ standing palm ~ P ~ double palm seems to be the break guard combo of choice in japan/taiwan"
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    is it possable to perform the DLC or AS3 after the tap punch on the floor connection? creed's one did'nt include a punch after the b,f+P and i was wondering if you could..

    also, the double palm was pulled off straight after a high punch in a daioh movie..how was this? quick CDing?.. to my knowledge, the double palm can only be pulled off at full crouch..

    ahhh.... those koreans..
     
  7. LAU Abuser

    LAU Abuser Well-Known Member

    to my knowledge, the double palm can only be pulled off at full crouch..

    u can pull off the dbpm without a crouch animation...
     
  8. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    To lau abuser: sgpm, dbpm is a true combo after stumbling trip.
    You don't see sgpm, SPoD because dashing in and doing a SPoD is a lot slower than a double palm.
    I've only seen it blocked once in movies, and I think the dbpm was screwed up.

    To barenuckle: The double palm does require a full crouch, but there is a trick to get to full crouch instantly... like you guessed, it's the crouch dash. If you tap down to crouch, it'll take a fraction of a second. If you enter d/f, D/F while akira is punching his opponent, then the instant the punch finishes akira is in a crouch dash and is allowed to do double palms or any other from-crouch move.
    The technique is called 'modifying' an attack. An instant double palm from a standing position is called a modified double palm, and that's why you see people write m-dbpm ... the 'm' is for modified. It also is why you see lots of "m-shrm" for akira's shoulder ram.
     
  9. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Re: Questions about changes of Akira from VF3tb to

    >>My point here is if the sgpm can be combo'ed with dbpm, that Akira wouldn't use SPoD to followup his sgpm. <<

    That's some really shoddy evidence you got there, especially when there are about 1836186 movies that show the ST,SgPm,DbPm combo over and over w/o fail. I would bet my left testicle that Chibby was just caught off guard and didn't bother to react at all to the SgPm, since the usual DbPm is guaranteed.
     
  10. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: Questions about changes of Akira from VF3tb to

    Ah, now I know which clip LAU Abuser was referring to. Yeah, when I watched it, my first thought was that Chibita was getting a little lazy and didn't care to block after the single palm, so he got knocked with a SPoD instead of a double palm...
     
  11. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Re: Questions about changes of Akira from VF3tb to

    Canned snglplm, m-dblplm comes out quick. SPoD comes out slower, chib was conditioned to block up to a certain time frame and got nailed (or yeah, he got lazy and just didnt block after the single palm /versus/images/icons/smile.gif ). I just think it was decent yomi on Aki's part.

    Speaking of decent yomi, you guys should experiment with 2/3 Fujin to setup opp.
     
  12. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    hey thanks man, really helped me out there. btw, about akira's new shoulder-elbow combo, is that guarenteed if the shoulder hits?

    any other technical things you guys can think of that occured to akira(i.e. possible longer/shorter recovery on key moves, things that are no longer guarenteed, etc) in the VF4 transition? i'd appreciate it.
     
  13. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Akira's shoulder-elbow combo thingy - Are we talk about that thing that looks like an over head smash with his fist, then another strike to the midsection that looks sort of like his stun palm? If so the second hit will happen when the first hit major counters.

    Heh, chatting to a dude now who's got his hands on PS2 VF4.

    He says nothing glaring graphically is different. Discepencies are minor.
     
  14. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    oops, forgot to answer your other questions about technical stuff.

    1. Akira's shrm is punch counterable by fast characters and throw counterable by anyone, but you have to be on the ball.

    2. If you're used to TB you'll like VF4- super dashing elbow is NOT counterable, and on major counter gives the stomach crumple animation. That animation means free DLC. If you're agressive and your opponent is light, try SDE (MC, opponent crumples), m-shrm, AS3 (new DLC-type combo). then a ground punch. Total damage is about half life. For an easier combo, do SDE (MC) deep bodycheck for about 40%.

    3. Any other time you get that crumple animation, f,f+K,K works also. d/f+P+K causes the animation also, rather than causing a float like before.

    4. b,f+P+K can be charged now. Doing it without charging is fairly quick, and it's a perfect anti-dodge or anti-tech roll attack. Charging it up you can end up taking even longer than VF3's b,f+P+K.. but it will break the opponent's guard if charged enough.

    5. b,f+P causes leg flop animation instead of normal knockdown. That's good because leg flop animation leads to free combos like P, dbpm... or low punch, dbpm... or AS3... or bodycheck.

    6. It's not a change, but QCB+P is the move of doom. Slow, but uncounterable, and if it hits, do a correct deep bodycheck for literally over half their lifebar. 55% if the best I've seen, and that happened because the akira player did QCB+P (MC), walked out of the screen using 3 walk for a second, then did a deep bodycheck into the side of the opponent. aieee.
     
  15. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    'k, that's cool. hey, btw, i was looking around in the general moves FAQ and found that most of Akira's range-dependent moves now do a set amount of damage cept for his body check.

    do the hit properties of the SgPm and DE stay about the same(save for the MC crumple animation?) that is, does the
    SgPm and DE stagger crouchers, but up close floors the opponent standing or crouching, and far away only hits them?

    hrm, what else, i'm kinda already guessing that Akira's special 3 combo isn't a true combo right? good for low float combos though, i know that.

    is there any use for Akira's overhead smash attack? y'kno, the one that forces the opponent to a crouch and takes 1 DP from Shun? i thought i heard Mr. Bungle say before that it's useless, or could i be wrong?

    and the surprise exchange is still good as worthless if the opponent struggles right?

    oh yeah, any use for Akira's wall jumping kick?
     
  16. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    do the hit properties of the SgPm and DE stay about the same(save for the MC crumple animation?) that is, does the
    SgPm and DE stagger crouchers, but up close floors the opponent standing or crouching, and far away only hits them?


    DE: staggers crouchers.
    SDE: knocks down every time in v.B, apparently staggers crouchers in v.C
    sgpm: never knocks down anymore apparently.
    You no longer see the 'knock the opponent on his ass' animation from akira's attacks.

    AS3 is not a true combo, and you're right, good for low floats.
    Overhead smash is nowhere near as good as the alternatives, like SDE or QCB+P
    SE is fairly worthless, try canned double palm if they're near a wall, then after they hit the wall you can get in something else like a DLC.
    Never seen the wall jumping kick. Prolly useless.
     
  17. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    cool, hey, thanks for being so patient replying to all my questions, must be annoying to have me asking questions that most ppl who played Vf4 enough times will say "duh"

    anyways, just one last question, are there any uses for the b,f+P+K+G move?
     
  18. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I haven't found any uses for the b,f+PKG that aren't already covered by better moves. It looks sorta cool (not as cool as b, d/f+P)

    Don't worry about asking questions. It's something I never get bothered by.
    (unless they're really really dumb, like "is lau pai's father?"
     
  19. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    Actually, I find this move pretty useful. It's nice that steps back to avoid moves (someone pointed out that you can use it to dodge then hit rising attacks).

    A good time to use it is after your Single Palm is blocked, to hit people who try to attack you.

    After it hits, a low kick is guaranteed, as well as a down attack (you can't TR from the b,f+P+K+G). If they TR after the low kick, you can middle kick them in the back for a back stagger.

    Another advantage it has over the dodge P+K+G is that if you dodge, then delay the P+K+G a little, you're open to throws before the P+K+G comes out. b,f+P+K+G doesn't suffer from this problem.

    You can use the funny timing to your advantage, sucker people into attacking/throwing, then do it. Looks cool if you can get it in an air combo.

    Spotlite
     
  20. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    after reading more of this thread, just one more thing:

    I'm almost positive that in version B the SDE staggers crouchers.
     

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