Random cute stuff I learned recently...

Just some junk I've picked up recently. I'm bored while I'm waiting for virtualdub to finish up a queue.




[*]The stomp after lau's b,f+P+G throw is not guaranteed. I sort of sensed this from the fact that an aoi player can reverse it, and stomp reversals are only supposed to work in non-guaranteed situations. But I'd assumed escaping it was just beyond human ability. In reality it's not too bad. Thanks to minami for showing me this in the star #12 clip /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif ... the trick to escaping it is to do a lot of stick movement and P+G button presses, but don't hit K at all (rising attacks will get stomped) and don't press up or down as you tap guard (siderolling in either direction gets crushed). You must stand up in place. I can't do it every time, but I know it's doable now. I've lost matches before from this non-guaranteed hit.



[*]When you're backturned, you can do attacks that either turn the character around pretty much right away, or attacks that don't. When you do stuff like a typical turn towards d+K sweep, you're considered facing forward almost immediately. When you're doing stuff like akira's backturned bodycheck (P+K) you're considered backwards during the exe. Why's this neat? Well I figured out that if you hit someone with a sidekick or certain other moves as they execute a backturned attack like akira's P+K... you get a special stumble. It's unstruggable, and the neat part is that a frontal throw is guaranteed afterwards... just dash in and throw and it's counted as a true combo. They have to escape it.
Credit to a recent clip between smurfy and akirazero showcasing this.


[*]I saw a few cute combos from arashi's goh vs. heavies - f,f+P+G --> K+G is easy. Harder is to do (any crumple) --> P --> m-shrm ... to do that, just hold forward as the opponent is crumpling, then wait and press jab just as wolf or jeffry is about to make the sound you hear when they finish collapsing. It's similar to the timing for creating a low punch on-the-bounce hit effect, i.e. the same timing as doing crumple --> d+P --> K. This combo is a little more damaging, and bring up goh's damage potential greatly from a knee major counter... knee --> gut punch crumple --> P --> shrm probably does about 94 pts of damage and leaves the opponent in a face down tech roll position. The timing for the jab takes practice.


[*]This should be VF 101 for everyone, but it took me forever to really have it sink in. Delayed high rising attacks are suicide. You're at a horrible disadvantage when you delay the kick as opposed to just do it right away.
Specifically, after a backroll or delay your kick is -14 when blocked. That means characters like lau, goh, and akira all get guaranteed standing palm combos, shun gets KKP, jacky gets df+PPPYEAHHHHHH, etc. Rising sweeps are -14 after a delay too. Basically delaying adds huge risk, no reward... and is the opponent REALLY less likely to guard the kick just because of the delay? Are their reflexes that good or are they really just making a 50/50 guess usually?
You get the picture. Don't do it unless you love being reamed.


[*]This is a minor and silly thing, but certain hits during stances cannot be TRed. First, I want to thank lonelyfig for pointing out that shun di's handstand kicks hit high, not mid. I feel like a retard for all the times I voluntarily let my sparring partner enter that stance and make me play an attack-or-throw guessing game. Just duck and ream shun. What I was saying about stance hits, if you hit shun i.e. during a handstand no tech roll or anything else is possible, and a pounce is likely. A ground throw is guaranteed. If you low kick lei fei during crane stance, it pretty much causes a foot crumple... a free combo for you. If you smack shun out of lie down positions or halfway into a stance, you'll sometimes see this weird floaty sideways knockdown where the prone body glides through the air like a piece of styrofoam floating off a tabletop. This sort of hit cannot be recovered from and should be punished with a pounce.


[*]On the subject of reaming shun, since I play goh-vs-shun primarily, some sobering tricks: Goh's df+P+G and f,b+P+G both sober shun. f,b+P+G is a good throw (guaranteed ground punch) so it should be abused. When you kill shun, you should try to do it with a standing K so he's stunned. You then take b,f+P --> b,f+P as a simple guaranteed way to drop his DP by 2. You can also try to do P (kills) --> df+P+G throw. It's also possible if you kill him and leave him floating to at least try for a f+P,P. Also, if your local shun di likes to abuse db+K,K ... remember that with good timing you can get a guaranteed back throw on shun if you mash P+G the instant the second kick whiffs over your head.


[*]Jeffry's threat stance P+K is good. It's a guaranteed sidekick on MC (probably something better is possible?) and I believe a crouch dash into throw may also be semi-guaranteed on MC, meaning the opponent must mash throw escapes. It's subtle and difficult to set up, but the third hit of jeff's db+P+K,P,P broad axe left combo is also a guaranteed throw hit if it MC's.
edit: I found out from slp_yps that f,f+P+K hit throw is guaranteed. Ow!


[*]Another bit I picked up from KFS's clips, every akira rising attack from every position (with the minor weird exception of a face up head towards side roll rising sweep) is reversible by those with midkick and low kick reversals. The crumpling low kick obviously is a double footed low kick reversal.

 

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I sort of sensed this from the fact that an aoi player can reverse it

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Didn't know that - I always got away from it (takes note). Does Kage's side-throw (not the one that looks like +) guarantee a down attack? I've gotten that reversed on me, but of course, it was a bit delayed when I did it.

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Well I figured out that if you hit someone with a sidekick or certain other moves as they execute a backturned attack like akira's P+K... you get a special stumble.


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Yeup. Lei Fei can punish this the hardest...without a date. Sen Shippo->+ for about 130-140 damage. Other times I use this
Aoi vs Akira (mainly): after a successful YY inashi, there are a few choices here, but Aoi is definitely several frames in the black. The standard options are CD-throw, elbows, or CD-low throw. They all work at one time or another. HOWEVER, Akira's body-check will take you out when you try the throws (or even a sweep unless you're REALLY quick). Try the CD-throw once, and get body-checked. The next time, Aoi's will produce this stagger if he tries to body-check again.

Using Kage against Aoi:
This actually works for anyone, but Aoi's a better example. After Kage's +, if Kage tries the 'guaranteed' +, Aoi'll reverse it. However, she'll not have the frames to reverse the Kage's side kick - this will result in the aforementioned stagger. Also, trying to duck the + (which won't work) and Kage whipping out the side kick will give this stagger... and works more often than you'd think.

For the last one, I think that there are times when a heavy-weight can duck, and the last part of + won't hit, so some people try to duck it.

 

re: kage's side throw - man no way should anyone try a ground attack after that. It takes him forever to unwrap his legs from you and stand back up.

re: aoi setting up the sidekick stagger - rad /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I keep forgetting aoi's neat freebies after SE type moves. Ditto shun and akira and others eh.

 

More fun combos from jeff's threat stance --> P+K... lots of testing involved.

Threat P+K --> ff+P,P [75 pts] ... easy money. The starfleet combo won't hit.
Threat P+K --> d+K,P [75 pts] ... probably the world's slowest stun combo.
Threat P+K --> knee (combo)... varies. I've gotten 106 guaranteed, and more in a non guaranteed knee --> P --> b,f+P+K --> pounce. Requires open stance and maybe also certain ranges.. it's flaky as hell to get it to count as a combo.
Threat P+K --> headbutt ... varies again. This never registers as a combo yet the headbutt cannot be blocked if you play it back on yourself. I feel so dirty because the training mode combometer lies to me. Threat stance into the hit throw probably works the same way, but with tight timing it DOES register as a combo. It might be more lenient than it looks though.

Finally, I (re)confirmed stance P+K --> throw as a true combo /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Some weird stuff:
I got this replay of Lei Fei missing an arrow punch, MC evade while staying BT, and doing a BT k. Hopefully I'll be able to put it up soon.

 

Nice stuff.

Q: I had basically given up on trying to land Jeff's broad axe combo and threat-->+. You mention that it's difficult to set up, but i presume you're implying that it's not impossible. How would you (or anyone) recommmend setting up to land these? And isn't the last hit of broad axe left combo strugglable even on MC first hit?

Thanks. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

good post /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

echoing myke's point about delayed rising attacks, i think kage's + and jumonji + comes to mind. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif