Re: Jacky/Sarah and Jeet Kune Do (open-minded only)

Regardless of whatever has been said Jacky's move resembles what the "mind" picture of JKD is, but it's far from being what JKD really is. First of all, JKD is JKD, nothing else. Then one asks, "What is JKD, then?" Well, even Bruce Lee didn't know what JKD is...he just gave what he was pursuing, a "label" or whatnot. Karate is karate, Taekwondo, judo, jiu jitsu, wushu, Pi gua, Wing Chun, all of these have names. Why name it and take is so seriously? His name is Bobby, MUST he be Bobby and if not, he is no longer Bobby? No, it is only to distinguish because we animals communicate through tongue.

When it comes down to it, JKD is a state of mind, a state to reject everything, and accept anything. What do I mean? I what I mean is to be water...of course, why not talk about water? Take a big lake, carve a hole by the beach, and water will rush into the hole. The beach has become the lake, and the new beach is new. If you get what I'm getting at, please post. If you don't, well, just remember, don't remember.

JKD is pretty much, a way of saying "There's something more it (Taekwondo, judo, Karate, Muay Thai, etc.), but it's already here, so why fuss?

 

Your kinda on the right path...JKD can be defined - it is a system of training a person, paying attention to their individual strengths, weaknesses, and needs. By having "all ways" available to the martial artist, they are able to develop themselves to the greatest extent...that being said..maybe that is how Jacky and Sarah see themselves...(its also a game /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif )

 

You had to say this... why?

Jeet Kune Do is the art that encompasses everything but possess nothing... all this is said on the official VF4 website. But why did you say this? And what purpose does it serve? And what is this fuss that you speak of?

 

There's been a little dispute over the authenticity of Jacky and Sarah's JKD. In the real world, the fact of the matter is that most excellent martial artists, ie guys who make a living as bodyguards, black ops, bouncers (those who are really looking to hurt somebody in very essential and permanent ways) are trained in a variety of styles that accentuate whatever they are best at and will not leave them vulnerable. Most martial arts styles are just that...style. For every JKD "specialist" who trains every day in controlled, fairly competitive atmospheres for that undefined time when he might really need to kick ass, there's some cat in Harlem or DC who is stomping on someone's head with the intent of killing them, in order to survive some confrontation. In that way, these Harlem guys are practicing their own "style" of martial art, but a style that doesn't depend on cooperation by a sparring partner. Most styles depend on that cooperation, if only because the so-called opp. understands how a move should be done and does his best to react to it, rather than fighting for his life. Assimulation of styles and taking the most brutal, effective, and straight-forward or simple attacks is the only true means to learn a real system that works in the street, at any time. JKD is a base to do that process, though any style can be that base. JKD does a better job than most of removing florid excess and getting down to direct basics, as it is a stance. Every great fighter needs a stance from which all his best physical weapons can be used and still leave him fairly balanced. Still, most martial artists in the world aren't prepared for the viciousness of a real street confrontation. In reality, if you're not prepared to miam or possible kill another person who will miam or kill you, then it doesn't matter if you're Bruce Lee or not, because you'll be a victim, and probably dead. It's nice to have a fighting philosophy, if you expect to protect those you love or yourself, but if you're not ready to do whatever is necessary to harm another at a moment's notice, martial arts of any kind is just faster yoga. So heads up.

 

Read this man

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/8187/Gorinnosho.htm#THE%20WATER%20BOOK

It discusses a bit about that water analogy. If you know who wrote this you should know its good information

 

lau fists, it doesn't matter if you're bruce lee or not??!!!?? wasn't it bruce lee who would battle anyone anytime, even taking the time to fight challenger's on the set of his movies? and we all know the outcome

 

I thought Bruce Lee didnt like to fight. I was under the impression that he said fighting wasnt too good because someone gets hurt all the time (which was usually his opponents). But maybe thats just me.

 

Well, he did fight alot in China under Wing Chun system. He liked to go all out for fun, for figuring out what works. But when he started to realize the excessiveness of classical stuff, he also challenged life. He no longer started to spar with everyone. There is no truth in fighting to hurt. He still sparred alot but with gear. Look at his body and compare it to his younger years...gosh, I don't care much about size or physique, but NO ONE has a body like Bruce Lee. SOme rappers or sports players has cut bodies, but Bruce's body was slick and velvet.

Anyways, may we talk about UFC and MMA? They call it mixed martial arts, but I only see Jiujitsu and kickboxing. They mind as well call it JJK (jiu-jitsu kickboxing) instead of MMA. It's no longer "use whatever works' but has become "use the only thing that works (takedown, side control, ground and pound, or arm bar, whatnot)." See a problem? I do...they train, but they forget, in reality, people grab groins, grab hair, bite face, bite arm, legs, it's no limit! During all this side control stuff, their groins are right there!!! And they are huffing and puffing. If someone ever puts me into a mount and I have full butterly guard, I'm going for the balls!!! I don't care what I do. But those MMA guys, they swing wildly, not like in the locker rooms. Those guys have good form, good long-range kicking on thai pads in locker rooms. But in the octagon, it's a Shotokan stance....very strong base, but very immobile. THEY KNOW their opp will rush in for the leg take down but they dont opp for the on-guard position (rear heel up, more weight on rear ball, slightly bent knee, arms high and ready yet resting). When some gets in a good rear roundhouse they STILL drop to the ground with the dazed opponent! Why not kick them in the head...oh wait!!! It's UFC, they have RULES..... Using whatever works? I don't know, man....you tell me....I bit my training partner before while I standing arm-barred him (not real, but practical enough to do damage) because I "had" to....but i don't know man....you decide for yourself...remember what Bruce said once in his thoughts...choosing the OPPOSITE is also choosing A WAY. I think this is what UFC is doing.

 

Have you ever watched pride...
your observations are a little off, a lot of times its not really a clean kick to the head. Often times both combatants are all tangled up. The ufc instituded more rules in an attempt to make the sport more mainstream...though don't be fooled into thinking it is a lame duck version of fighting. If you want to watch something more hardcore, check out PRIDE.
Who the hell is using a shotokan stance...nowadays, its almost always a modified boxing stance infused with a wrestling/ju-jistue stance. Oh yeah, you still see other styles such as Judo, kempo, boxing, thai boxing, wrestling, etc....

 

And what did you just say???!!!!! May I quote you:

"...The ufc instituded more rules in an attempt to make the sport more mainstream...though don't be fooled into thinking it is a lame duck version of fighting." Hmmmm....so, it's a sport now? So, it's like football, or something now? It has rules, t-shirts, hats, and is sponsored by Shark Drinks, or whatnot? Hmmm..,.so, is it a sport, or a freakin' art?!!! Look, I am not going to fuss this over with you dean. Because to you, I will always be "someone who is mouthing off about MMA." So I think I am going to depart from this conversation.

 

Your point is?

 

My point is, you don't seem to understand anything about combat in reality. I would like to hear some of your insights on fighting but all you throw out is UFC, this, UFC that...and first of all, UFC cannot be THAT real because it's simple: they can't bite, kick in the head (temple, back of neck, spine) to a downed opponent, grab hair, or gouge eyes. PrideFC, UFC, whatever there is, it's still not what you would call "REAL." Of course, it's all real in THAT sense, it's not staged, but think of this: how many times are you going to get into a fight in an octagon or ring? If someone ever puts me into a mount, and I can get a butterfly full guard, their groin is going to take some damage, I just don't care how good of a Jiu-Jitsu they. Anyone gets punched in the groin or grabbed, they are letting go. UFC is only evolving martial arts in some little way. In reality, UFC is evolving martial arts to be effective in this "sport" of so-called "mixed martial arts." By the way, of all kicks, the most devastating is the mid sidekick (physics tells us that a straight hits harder than side or up-down). Very simple, but so strong, yet never used.

 

Ok, you want my insight into actual combat?
I've been involved with the martial arts for over 13 years now and going...hold more than a few belts.
I've dealt with violent racism and discrimination from 1st grade all the way through high school, having to "fend for myself" a number of times. Combat all to often, in the streets, is getting the first hit in and then pounding the shit out of the person, or stunning them and running away, esp if you find your ass in south east where modern combat is guns and knives, not punching and kicking people.
As with most strikes, is where and when (timing) that counts more than just the physical force behind the kick....
As for your groin theory..it is only half true..hell, look at the 2nd ufc..guy had this dude in an arm bar, the guy in the armbar leaned up and wailed at this guys nuts like 13 times..it was ONLY after the 13th hit or so that the guy let go....a shot to someone's nuts does NOT guarante victory...
also, you have any idea just about how hard it can bet to get a guy there? We are more apt to defend against a kick to the nuts than a kick to the head just because of natural instinct.
For your kick theory, also friggen wrong. The strongest kick, would be a flying side kick due to the huge amount of momentum, or a jumping spin hook kick...both of these are rarely if never used b/c of the risk factor...the strongest attack with no skip involved would be a thai style leg kick, with a huge hip rotation....its used all the time b/c it is effective..also a shin round house to the neck (often see) is very, very devistating.

 

Now that's insight! That's what I want to hear, not all this otcagon talk. Anyways, yes, physics holds true for momentum, but I meant to say that a sidekick is the strongest kick without having to place yourself in a risky position because it can be done with hardly having to switch the on-guard position. And I don't mean a poking sidekick. I mean one that you stomp as your hips follow through and you pull back and retreat same time. Ya know, the whole idea behind Bruce Lee's theory on sidekick. And spinning kicks...well, I ain't planning to lose a fight so forget it.

And yes, you're right. One hit in groin doesn't mean victory. But it sure as hell hurt. And an armbar? There's not enough force to drive a fist into groin to hurt anymore. But why hit...when a grab is much more painful in a tight squeeze? But the point I'm saying is, you can't really squeeze balls in order to get out of mounts in UFC which otherwise would be very useful in a real combat situation. For me, I would never do armbar to an opponent unless he is so out of it already because if he is able to get his teeth on my calves or worse! the soft part of the under thigh, I sure as hell would be screwed. And this may in fact, cripple martial arts thinking in some way. Don't you agree? Anything goes, but all I see in UFC is restricted, rule-regulated Jiujitsu Kickboxing.

 

Well - armbar stuff first..you wouldn't do it slowly in combat..one, two, three..snap..
From the mount, someone tries to grab at your nuts...they are being much more risky..leaves them vulnerable..look at a full mount, or even in someone guard, and you will what I am talking about..if anything, if your in the top position, you can bang away at their nuts...

 

Are you two acting out your erotic fantasies in a public forums? I'd like UFC to allow ear licking.

 

I mean, I just think it's strange. Both fighters are still fresh and very much alive but you dare take him down? Why not work through the defenses with long-range, close the gap, then go for sidewalk slam or spine buster, mount, then 1-2 punch, and walk off? I hardly see any good close range working besides just dropping down and go for the legs. Regardless of how "awkward" or how "fake" Wing Chun sticky-hand techniques(hate to label) looks, it's very much effective especially trapping the lead hand with your lead hand. When I spar with my other friends whom don't really do martial arts and are looking for a fun boxing match, wow!...they can't keep up close range with trapping and lop sao. Thus, I can only come up with one phrase: it works once you've closed the gap so close that western boxing is basically useless and dropping down is too tight that your head will just land on his chest if you drop for leg takedown.

I just don't see the economy of energy in the attempt to wrestle down a very fresh fighter into an armbar or mount. Once you've wrestled for 1 or so minutes, the hits hardly hold anymore energy. Perfection seeks simplicity, stated the man...whose birthday is in two days, might I say /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif.

I look at a takedown as a rear cross as oppose to a jab. A jab is to flicker, do fast damage, and stun your opponent and when comes time to throw the rear cross (many times ending a match), then you go for it. Striking to me, is like jabbing, then the takedown is like the rear cross...

 

Homes..first off..have you actually been in a fight, or even some sort of competition that is full contact..you try to do that sticky hands crap to me, more likely than not I would take your head off with basic boxing skills...Look at what TItor Ortiz does..strikes to set up the take down...when bodies clash, shit goes awry. People go flying. Your not gunna do some slapping crap..I would just let loose a flurry of crosses and upper cuts, once you get focused on that, go for a single or double leg take down.
WIng chung people have competed before..how come they always get mauled by grapplers???

Note - for you last part of your response, watch any of Igor's old Pride fights, or hell, Mark coleman..he could wrestle for a bit and then pound the crap out of his opponents.

 

"also a shin round house to the neck (often see) is very, very devistating."

sick....... /versus/images/icons/ooo.gif

 

Hehe, its a basic thai-boxing weapon.