Re: whats the future of fighting games

Discussion in 'General' started by Marginal, Aug 15, 2001.

  1. Marginal

    Marginal Well-Known Member

    What are good 3d controls? Holding a button to sidestep's a horrible method. SC seems to handle it the smoothest so far as even tobal required too much extra stuff like a block button, a jump button etc. Heef!
     
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I personally like VF3's best.
     
  3. Akira Yukii

    Akira Yukii Active Member

    3d controls? Hmm..I thought it out and have a small system I think MAY suffice to the gaming community. Well, on a playstation controller, the analog sticks can be pressed down as if a button, although this doesn't do anything.

    Well.
    Analog controling with 3d movement-

    Press analog stick, move wherever in a full free mode, then press again to lock it in?

    For control pad players (my cup of tea).
    I'd like to see a controller with a button in the center of the D pad? Could be annoying, but useful, you coudl use the methoad described for the analog controller. Or PERHAPS. Use a shoulder button to activiate a free mode?

    What do you think of it?
    -Z'

    "Every gamer developes a FEEL for the fighters they play. It's probably the only non optional aspect."
     
  4. Marginal

    Marginal Well-Known Member

    Why is being locked on a 2d plane with minimal control somehow the most desireable conrol scheme? Seems counterintuiative to me...
     
  5. Akira Yukii

    Akira Yukii Active Member

    I honestly believe that's the ONLY way.
    It makes it easier to use combos and of course.
    *pokes the haters with a flame pick*
    DYNAMICS! Just kidding. >D

    Actually, some games on a rare occasion have that feature and turned out a wad of shit; well..not a wad of shit, but they just don't FIT in with the fighting genre, ya' know?
    Ever heard of Biowarriors or something...dammit..Bio something..

    BIO FREAKS!
    That game was all free, no 2d jib, but most people agree that it sucked.
    I DO however understand what Marginal is getting at. I can see clearly pictures
    of combos that take the gamer to different angles at the opponent with each button.
    The question is how to pull it off, and you know what?

    I'm baffled. I have no idea.

    -Z'


    "Every gamer developes a FEEL for the fighters they play. It's probably the only non optional aspect."
     
  6. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    u think we need some orignal features in fighting games they havent changed much since street fighter and VF

    'Strong body but a weak mind' Sam Seed from Drunken Masters
     
  7. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    For today's fighters, you're locked into your opponent anyway, so even with SC movement there's not that much freedom. VF3's system is nice, but requires a whole extra button for maybe 6 moves. Tekken-style sidestep has an unfortunate tendency to crouch/hop if you miss, but it frees up the stick and buttons for attacks.

    If you want freedom of movement, IMHO an over-the-shoulder view is the only way to go. The advantages of this system are obvious (multiplayer fights, creative arenas, etc.). Unfortunately, only OMF:BG has picked up on this, and that looks to be a PC/Xbox-only title anyway.
     
  8. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Hrmm...I think flow will become much more important.
    I would like to see, eventually, something of a virtual reality fighting game, where you can be a fighter and kick ass based on your own "style" -- but thats a LOOOOONG way off.
    In the nearer future, I would like to see more emphisis on damage to limbs and grittier enviornments. I'd like to see enviroment play a much bigger role...breakable windows, tables, everything. If your pants get really, really wet, animation changes, damage, speed, etc. I would like to see fatigue take more of a role. We have always had statistics on "endurance" since street fighter, but it has not made a lick of difference. It can be done. Look at the Mark Coleman vs. Pete Williams. Williams won because he wore COleman out. Had Coleman hit him hard a few times in the beginning, Williams would of been bent over backwards with that behemonth destroying him, but he danced around and wore him out. I would like to see that sort of strategy come into play. It was kinda done in the UFC fighting game, but just in basics with that blue bar. I would like to see a more interactive blocking game, where you have blocking moves as well as offensive moves. The universal defense of holding back or hitting block is OK, but it would be really cool to have a lot more control over defense. That's it for now.

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     
  9. Marginal

    Marginal Well-Known Member

    The only thing with an over the shoulder view, you lose the kinestatic sense that a further removed third person view provides. I never played in Tekken 2's first person move, of VF3's mainly because it was that much harder to guage distances and orient attacks etc.

    Also, in a fight, how many times do two real fighters just start walking off in a direction totally unrelated to where their oponent is? If your opponent is good, he'd just clock 'ya for the trouble. I dunno, I think full freedom of movement takes a back seat to putting up a soild, fast paced fight.
     
  10. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Hrmm..for first person/over the shoulder type of view, you really need to simulate intution, which I have NO idea how in the heck your supposed to program that in...how do you program that feeling something is comming at you?

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     
  11. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    That's the point... for straight, one-on-one fighting you don't really NEED freedom of movement, since you'll want to face your opponent 99% of the time anyway. It's a great idea in theory, but it's not really necessary unless you want 3+ players.

    Hehe, programming a warning whenever someone's behind you would be akin to warning you someone's pointing a gun at you in Quake... it eliminates the surprise tactic (which you don't have small battles anyway) and makes projectiles proportionally more powerful (since the alarm wouldn't get triggered until it was too late). Basically, if you let someone sneak up behind you, you deserve to get back comboed :)
     
  12. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    I still do not see that happening with fighting games. With martial arts,there is so much moving, turning, spinning, head over heels, I really do not see it being done effectivly. You'd be surprised how quickly you can get to someone's back in real life...

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     
  13. Yamcha

    Yamcha Well-Known Member

    So you're saying that 3D fighters are really necessary? If that's the case (forgive me if I'm wrong), I will have to disagree with that, I can see how it's true for games like Soul Calibur or DoA where sidesteps aren't as crucial to the overall gameplay and are used more for character positioning, but the E button in VF3 allows for so much freedom of movement and attack and defense strategies it's crazy.
     
  14. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    Hmmm... yeah, I wasn't too clear there. Obviously sidesteps and the related stuff add a lot to the game, but you don't need or want to turn your character, say, 45 degrees to the left (the extra freedom of movement a 3rd-person view provides). It's only when you're facing multiple opponents that this is needed.

    Yeah, with this kind of view it would be much easier to get around someone once they don't automatically turn towards you, but keep in mind that getting to the side or back would be the main way of defeating turtles in a multiplayer fighting game, which would have to throw traditional hit levels out the window (any low moves would basically be unblockables, since when player 3 could be sniping at both of you, crouching is pretty stupid unless you're CD-ing around someone).
     
  15. Marginal

    Marginal Well-Known Member

    Multiple opponents? Look no further than Shenmue. That game has an amazingly versitile fighting engine when you're up against multiple opponents. Ducking's integrated into the evade button, and Ryo was capable of breaking out some amazing moves in every dodge state.

    Now that would be a great online multiplayer fighter.
     
  16. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I think AM2 did release a game like that recently in Japan. At least if I didn't mistake what I saw from the videoclips of it.

    It's called "Spikers Battle" and it's a 4 player combat game of some sort I believe... Reminds me of Shenmue battles, Ehrgeiz, and even Dynamite Deka (the pick up the weapons aspect anyways).

    Anyways, as I'm writing this, I'm uploading the video (as I write this) I got from that "ruliweb" site quite a few months ago. Figure I would point it out for some to see (if they're interested).

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.cs.orst.edu/~saenguni/vf/clips/sb.avi>Spikers Battle Preview Clip</A>

    -Chanchai
     

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