Reasons for gameplay conversions being off?

Discussion in 'Console' started by Shadowdean, Jan 27, 2002.

  1. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Since most other fighting games gameplay seems to be almost dead on, how come vf home conversions have been off? Is there a real hardware issue, or is it just sloppy programming and error checking?
     
  2. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Probably because in just about every case, the arcade hardware was completely different from the console hardware.

    I don't know how Saturn hardware compared to Model 1 hardware. It definitely wasn't close to Model 2 hardware. Dreamcast hardware is very different from Model 3 hardware. And PS2 is CERTAINLY different from Naomi 2 hardware. Keep in mind that AM2 kept with using hardware that was powerful and probably on top of other arcade hardware when they released each of the VF series. It certainly was the case with Model 1-3 anyways. And it's hard to ask for a perfect conversion from those.

    Now let's look at other conversions:
    -Street Fighter 2 series conversions were all pretty off, but home gameplay got closer to being arcade perfect on Saturn and PSX, much later before perfect conversion.
    -As far as I know NONE of the Street Fighter Alpha series games got a perfect conversion. This includes Street Fighter Alpha 3 for any system.
    -Tekken series was designed on Playstation hardware for arcade, a port was literally a port. Not an emulation or recreation.
    -Soul Calibur for Dreamcast is a different game than Soul Calibur for Arcade. For the better probably as it's completely tweaked in just about every way.
    -Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Capcom vs. SNK, Capcom vs. SNK2 were all built on the Naomi hardware and thus it was a port, not an emulation or recreation to the Dreamcast. I haven't played the PS2 version of CvS2, though it probably is a good emulation.
    -I was impressed with the Third Strike "port" to Dreamcast. Only minor things seem to be off, and they supposedly tweaked the hit boxes (doesn't feel that way to me though).

    Anyways, some food for thought.

    -Chanchai
     
  3. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I think it's just murphy's law.. you stick a bunch of different people with varying tasks and give them a monstrous job of totally recreating something from scratch and then piecing it all together... not to mention a deadline...

    someone's gonna fuck up.

    The dude who accidentally messed up the damages to VF2.1 for saturn was probably on his 50th cup of coffee. Stuff like unusual combos being possible may be due to inferior hardware - if the DC can't do quite as much math as the VF3 Arcade's hardware, then it has to round a few numbers somewhere, and stuff like collision detection is determined by that math.

    I rarely see a conversion where there's just no excuse for missing/altered stuff.
     
  4. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    None of the street fighters gameplay was spot on? Wow, please elaborate, because they seemed spot on to me (and I would put myself up at a avid sf fan level.).
     
  5. CIN

    CIN Well-Known Member

    Unless the arcade harware is = to the console hardware like N@omi=DC than the conversion will have something off. Simple. Different people think differently. Different processors process differently.

    DC as a whole is more powerful than M3 but a game that was done on M3 originally(or M2 or M1 as in the Saturn's case)will not be an exact port. Even resolution difference will make the port look different, exposing certain imperfections and improving others. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    And the PS2 version will probably be also different since the N2 has a SH4 as the main CPU while the PS2 has a completely different CPU. Not to mention the GFX processors. As it is now N2>PS2
     
  6. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Street Fighter Ports....

    SNES ports had speed and timing issues. Genesis was close. Still a great job in terms of when it was done and the standards at the time.

    I wish I was enough of a Street Fighter Alpha 1/2 nut to tell you the differences in those versions. What I can tell you is that somewhere along the line all of the Alpha 3 ports had some issue here or there. Playstation version was played at a different timing (it was slower, but in a weird way) and it ended up feeling like you were playing Champion Edition or something. Saturn version came pretty close, but my understanding was that there were Vism issues. Dreamcast version definitely had Vism issues with falling speed.

    Those are the examples I can come off of on the top of my head. But I will say I have always liked the home versions of the Street Fighter games, just that they were not "perfect" conversions with the exception of the Naomi titles. However, after trial and error, some of them had it so close with only the music-skipping problem being an issue (Street Fighter Collection/Capcom Generations).

    It would be interesting to find a listing of every aspect that was different in the home versions for all of the titles including Marvel based, VS series, Dark Stalkers series, etc... I'm sure somebody has listed them somewhere.

    -Chanchai
     
  7. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Hrmm..I thought SFIII: third strike was DEAD on?
     
  8. BEM

    BEM Member

    Off the top of my head, differences I know about:

    Alpha 1 - IIRC, Sodom's s.roundhouse is unblockable while rising on arcade, but is blockable in the home versions.

    Alpha 2 - On the arcade, couldn't 'Sim do his air grab super and have it grab a rising character? I don't think he could do this on the Saturn version.

    Alpha 3 - Saturn was the closest conversion, but there are some issues with V-Ism. IIRC on the arcade, 'Gief can activate V-Ism, *immediate* 360+K, and the opponent will "bounce" the wrong way (towards 'Gief, not away from him). This allows him to do another OTG 360+K, then finish with a final OTG SPD. Can't do that in Saturn. I believe there are other issues, but I can't recall the specifics.

    DC version has more differences - e.g., in the arcade, Karin can activate V-Ism, 360+P, then juggle with a DP+P palm strike into midscreen. On the DC version, the motion is reversed and the timing is different.

    Third Strike - Urien's FAS unblockable works in the arcade, doesn't on DC. I believe Oro has an unblockable with the green snot balls on the arcade, which doesn't work on DC.

    *shrug* They all seemed pretty close to me. Nothing too different from the arcade, apart from the DC Karin stuff which annoys the hell out of me...

    If you want a definitive answer, try asking in the forums at www.shoryuken.com
     
  9. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    definite 'tweaks' to the home consoles. maybe it was things the original programmers missed/didn't like and the console programmers fixed?? i dunno.
     
  10. DuoWing

    DuoWing Active Member

    Gaishou I was about to reply with that same answer or something close..it seems that maybe also when it does come to a home console, certain moves and timing might be purposely changed around, I mean if you can't reverse or block( or whatever you said) about Sarah's whirlwind kick. Then do you know how annoying that would get in the home version... that would allow for any novice to beat an experienced player. They may also change the timing to allow for more gameplay in the home versions, so it takes longer to master, and you play more. It could also be they originally didn't like how some of things were excuted, etc. So it may be they fix it up. It might be just sloppy programming. WHo knows.
     
  11. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Hrmm, are these flukes/mistakes, or intentional changes?
     
  12. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    I mean if you can't reverse or block( or whatever you said) about Sarah's whirlwind kick.

    i said?? hmmm.....

    i think maybe the home versions may be a more refined version of the game that the original programmers made. maybe since things (in example) characters/stages, maybe the timing is changed, or moves are made easier to do. they have to factor in the whole console thing really. its a different system, controllers, audience....etc.
     

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