Recover after every knockdown?

Hey everyone, been a while since I posted anything here, but a question has arisen that I hope you can help me with.

Basically I'm wondering if I should always go for a recovery after I get knocked down.

I know you take more damage if you don't roll, but I sometimes find that I get up so close to the opponent that they immediately pressure me. Should I sometimes take the hit to buy some time or am just asking for extra damage from the land and from a potential down attack?

Do you guys mix it up to fool the opponent or always go for the recovery?

 

You know this is actually not an easy question to answer. It really depends on how you are falling, and what move your opponent did to make you fall, and if they have a combos that depends on you not teching the fall.

I choose to tech or not to tech based on what I happen to know about the character I'm facing's ability to counter my tech. I used to always tech and I learned that can be pretty bad, so I mix it up now. I try to take momentum away from my opponent when I choose to not tech, so that the rising kick mixups can begin. That or just get up and attack/evade/block.

Like I said. Not an easy question to answer.

 

Don't always go for anything, unless your opponent can't handle it, or doesn't notice you're doing it.

An "always" I'd suggest, is trying out different options so you'll better understand why you would or wouldn't want to do them, and if they're effective for you or not, in your own playing style.

There are many different ways to get up, besides rolling. I suggest looking through the VF5 Guide at the top of the site. If you're more on the knowledge over experience based side as a player, you can save yourself a lot of time by just reading and understanding what's written in that guide.

Good luck.

 

One situation where I don't tech roll most of the time is if I get knocked down near the edge of the ring.

 

Ill reply here that if I notice my opponent having a tight, well-rehearsed okizeme sequence ( attacking me as I rise up) - staying on the ground for a second or so and not using techroll can often mess up their rhythm. Its a relatively simple solution if you find yourself unable to rise up without getting caught in opponents attack.

Also some people do dash back - dash forward in okizeme in order to make rising attacks whiff (I do that myself) and delaying your rising kick can catch them off rhythm as they rush in to interrupt your rising attack. Of course, thats not the ultimate solution as delayed rising kicks are punishable. But its a technique thats relatively simple to learn, as long as youre not yourself fixed in your own rhythm (which is a weakness).

Staying on the ground is not ultimate solution either, as opponent will simply do ground attacks on you if youre not being unpredictable enough.

Slide said it best: Don't always go for something. Be unpredictable.

 

Tech rolling when you're face down head towards your opponent is a pretty bad idea for the most part. Some characters can wreck you for that.

It's all about moderation. Don't do the same stuff all the time. If your opponent likes to keep pressure on you then staying down, using rising kicks, delayed rising kicks and slow rolling can help you break their rhythym as Manji said.

There are times when you should ALWAYS tech though. Like if Wolf gets you with a giant swing. Rolling away from that additional 20 damage is a must.

 

Try Playing happyfriend, thats all he does.... spam you on recovery. Sometimes youre best delaying the recovery and choose weather to use a rising attack or get ready to evade the incoming attack or throw. Experience counts tho.

 

I only learnt this from TonyFamilia but apparently its in the VF4 dojo. I really wish there was a better dojo for VF5 and I really hope they make a better dojo for VF5FS.

 

Takes like a second to look it up, Click Here! Though I agree Evo was nice for explaining so much of this stuff in game.

"If you perform In-Place Recovery from a Face Down, Feet Toward knock down, then you briefly expose your back in a crouched state, and will be unable to guard a low or mid attack from the opponent, if it's timed right. Depending on the attack, it is possible for the opponent to Back Stagger you, giving them a further combo opportunity."

"If you perform Side Roll Recovery from a Face Down, Head Toward knock down, then you briefly expose your back in a crouched state, and will be unable to guard a low or mid attack from the opponent, if it's timed right. Depending on the attack, it is possible for the opponent to Back Stagger you, giving them a further combo opportunity."

 

The best advice to learning this is simply playing many matches - experience. Even then it is something that I feel many people haven't mastered. You should always keep your opponent guessing. I truly think that this is a weakness for many people. If someone has just started playing this game I can see how they might think it's not that important because there are seemingly limited options. The fact is that there are tons of options.

@VF2011 - I know you specifically asked about quick recovery, but you should also be aware of ALL possible wake-up options, meaning, being creative also by not using instant recovery and making your opponent guess what you are going to do after lying there a bit. Choosing options after lying on the ground is really where I feel people could use a lot of development. It usually isn't that unsafe to just lie there, because many people are expecting an instant recovery and don't have a plan for continuous ground hits. Also because of the delay before the game forces you to stand up is really where you can mix it up.

I have a ton of success in delaying my rise, rolling backwards, and at the last possible second, input a low rising kick. You would be surprised but there is a lot of possible delay opportunity built in to both the roll and when you can input the kick during the roll. This will keep people guessing. Some of the best people to learn this against are the ones that are always in your face during rising.

One thing to be careful though about delayed rising attacks - they can be countered on block. You might be wondering how to make sure your rising attack isn't delayed then. It's simply mashing the kick button while you are lying there. If you perform a rising attack the moment the game lets you it has different properties. Yet another great, extremely deep rule, to the already deep rule-ridden game!! =)

Hope this helps!

 

Shiz, guess I must have missed that part.

 

Face down, head toward is vulnerable to an immediate mid followup. It's a risk a player can take to get up faster, but it's a big one to do more than a few times. Getting up neutral gives the opponent ample time to do a mixup and not teching vs. that situation is a guaranteed pounce, ground throw or stomp.

Just generally:

I think delaying a rise is only useful if a grounded player is really sure the opponent won't catch on and pounce or ground throw. If you have the life lead it could be a good idea if they are prone to specific patterns since it's not super punishable most of the time.

Techrolls are something rising players should be really careful about over-utilizing because you are susceptible to a counter hit from any properly-timed move. Moves with more than 1 active frame (not sure if this is recorded in the frame data we have?) timed to land on that last active frame will behave differently on block, too, like meaties in a 2D game. Rising players can also be low thrown early in the animation of techrolls to the side and certain neutral techs and attacking during the rising animation or inputting escapes during the early part is the only way to avoid that.

Everything in the okizeme game in VF is harder to execute consistently online and it makes certain things safer and others more risky.

All of the ways to get up in VF carry risks of taking more damage, but the most damaging options also carry a risk for the opponent. Rising attacks are annoying but the risk-reward is skewed toward the opponent pressing the advantage. Think of it like a really bad DP.

 

I've been wondering a lot about fall teching since I started saving my replays, when I don't tech I usually just lay there and eat a wake up mixup or they add on damage by doing a jumping attack. And as wolf I would want to keep the pace up by fall teching if im knocked back far enough for it to be safe (is this right in anyway?)

 

Ok that makes sense, I'm sure the amount of times I can pull it off with out seeming too obvious that im always gonna fall tech

 

I'd say mix it up. There have been several situations where I got creamed when I recovered every time I got knocked down. I've learnt to mix things up, and it's worked a lot better for me.

 

I assumed Okizeme and Ukemi were tactics/skills that every player had to learn the risks/rewards of. Its like that for almost every fighting game...2D and 3D. Learning when to get up or not, and when is a valuable know-how.