Request for help with theories on scaling anomoly and a Wolf note.

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by Nutlog, Apr 30, 2002.

  1. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Ok, I'm gonna need some help with this one guys. I've been looking over the 80% scaling occasion that happens every now and then and I have some rather out there theories (no surprise), but I'm kind of at a loss as to explain what is actually happening here. One thing I have noticed is that just about all the moves that exhibit the 80% scaling reset is that none of them seem to use the standard hit sounds on impact (the loud bang for MCs and the like). They all seem to use either the *crunch* noise (kickflips, reversals, etc...) or the muffled kick sound (wolf's short shoulder, sidekick MCs, etc...). In every situation that I can reliably repeat, a low punch will also connect with the opponent instead of the reset hit. There are also situations (harder to replicate, but they're there) where a hit can get the 80% scaling reset AND the 50% ground hit penalty applied. The easiest situation I've found that can repeat this is using Wolf's SS(MC), P(G), P(G), SS combo against Lau. Done at it's fastest, it follow normal scaling (the last SS does 19). A frame or two slower and the SS does 24 (80% reset). Yet another frame or two after that, the SS does 12 (80% reset and 50% ground hit), then they're grounded and the opponent could tech roll to avoid the 15 damage SS. I could not in any fashion get the SS to connect with the full damage scaling removed in that combo, but can with only using one punch (SS, P(G), SS where the last SS does 30). In that situation, I cannot get the last SS to hit for the 80% reset.

    From all this I'm tempted to state that there is a switch on the totally unscaled vs. 80% scaled based on distance from opponent (but again I'm not sure on this). Also that landing the 80% reset is slightly easier as you can do it at LP height, whereas the totally unscaled is a bit tighter in the window.

    I'm asking for any other opinions out there, or possible ideas. I don't feel comfortable putting this in the FAQ yet, as I want to confirm this with more characters than just Wolf and Kage (I'd like to get Jacky, Shun and Sarah in there as well for testing, since the all have moves that fit the questions type as well in the kickflips and the old man palm).

    On another note, I've finally conceeded today that the SS is definitely the float tool of choice for Wolf over the knee. I was kind of half and half on em (like I still am on Sarah's knee vs. DC), but testing out some of the open ring combos that I've been capturing lately, the SS gives a slightly better float that enables some really painful stuff on everyone lighter than Jacky. (The standard measure was SS(MC), P(G), K,K for 92 points) The knee only allows stance independence for the girls and open up to Shun. The SS gives stance independence up to Shun, open up to Lau. About the only thing the knee offers now is that it's 3 frames faster in execution, which is still good, but not great as it's still too slow to punish much.
  2. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    On another note, I've finally conceeded today that the SS is definitely the float tool of choice for Wolf over the knee...About the only thing the knee offers now is that it's 3 frames faster in execution, which is still good, but not great as it's still too slow to punish much.

    If you mean "SS gets a better float than Knee", ceteris paribus, yes, I agree. If you mean "Wolf players should rely on SS more than Knee because, while it's 3 frames slower in execution, it has better float prospects", then I strongly disagree.

    3 frames is *a lot* of difference. If Wolf blocks a d+P, he has +4 advantage. Effective execution for knee is now 13f, effective execution of SS is 16f. The knee will beat out most attacks except for punches; the SS will get MC'ed by elbows, kickflips, you name it...

    Watch the Daioh or ACT clips -- I barely recall any situation in which the Wolf player used an SS; it's almost always a Knee that is used.
  3. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    True, I was speaking, if you have the choice, always using the SS as it provides the better float. I agree whole heartedly on still using the knee as a better MC tool, but for things like dodges of rather long recovering moves, the SS should be the default over the knee. Stuff like dodging Jacky's f,f+K. Use the SS over the knee, things like that.

    Edit: took me a while to dig it out from my email, but I've got the makings of a somewhat detailed Wolf FAQ on my PC at home that I mailed to my office to "work" on while I'm at work and things are slow. Here's the accompanying text I put in with the knee...

    "In the heat of a fight, this is your float tool. If you can pick up about a 3-6 frame advantage in blocking something, this move should be one of your primary go to’s. At three frames advantage the knee will stuff elbows and give you nice floats. At the upper range of 6 frames and up, the knee will stuff anything the opponent can throw at you. Many damaging combos are possible from landing this move, especially as a major counter. As you get more familiar with the options available from getting your knees to connect, it becomes regularly possible to take anywhere from 1/4 of your opponent’s life bar to 1/2, when landing one.
    Don’t get too comfy with just throwing it out though. (getting tired of hearing that yet?). When it’s blocked, almost everyone can punish you with punch strings, and everyone has a throw opportunity."

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