REVO / US 2.1 Goh discoveries and testing

Yeah, it works on basically everyone except heavies, Blaze in closed and perhaps Shun (not tested). Against lights you need 1fk's and against some characters like Goh and Akira you need to delay the P a bit. Will do full documentation of that one when R.E.V.O. launches and we see if the 1P+K change sticks as it is.

 

vs Jeffry
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1P+K, 44P, BT 2P, 46P+KP6P
Works from closed on rCH* and both stances on CH same as Wolf.

* Jeffry still launches higher on NH than on rCH from regular launch type moves because... reasons... so I'm testing both but if it doesn't work from both I wouldn't recommend it. On NH this particular combo would work from both stances but that'll never really happen in a match.

CH 1P+K, P, 44P, BT 2P, 3PP
Does NOT work on Jeffry on rCH at all so no easy stance checks like Wolf. It does work from both on CH although you should do the first combo if you get a counter hit. Just listed it to say it's NOT like Wolf.

rCH 1P+K, P, 1P+K, 3PP also works on Jeffry for 1 point more than the old stance free combo option. On NH you'd need to 1fk one of the moves after launch for it to work.
I'd just do the old P, 66P+K, 3PP as a stance free NH & rCH option if you wanna be safe and sure.

1P+K, P, 66P+K, 3PP
1P+K, P, 66P+K, 46P+KP6P
Old stuff works like it used to, same as Wolf

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rCH 4P+K, 1P+K, 46P+KP6P
Also works on Jeffry, no shenanigans on NH either.

CH 4P+K, 1P+K, P, 46P+KP6P
Like Wolf; closed on NH/rCH, stance free on CH

---

1K+G
Everything works the same as Wolf except 2P, 46P+KP6P does not connect at all. 3P, 1fk 2P, 2_3P+K is the best I can land on him. Once again enough distance in open will cause even 3P to whiff.
EDIT: In which case you can still go for 2_3P+K, I should add.

---

Interestingly even though Jeffry and Wolf are supposedly lighter now than before, they hit the "ground bounce" frame exactly on the same moves in old combos as before. I've not been able to find one single thing on them that wouldn't work exactly like it used to. I genuinely wonder if they're really lighter than before and if so, then what exactly does it really affect?

 

https://x.com/VF_SEGA/status/1872530358543237322

■Goh ・Muchi'uchigeri (4K+G) Shortened the total recovery frames, reducing the chances of being countered when missing the attack.
　↓
Shortened the total recovery frames, reducing the chances of being countered when missing the attack. Causes a stagger on guard.

 

I went through 46P a bit more thoroughly now

46P, dash 3PP
46P, P, 1fk 3PP
Taka combos. First one always works. Second one needs 46P to be done right next to Taka from closed stance or it drops. Reliable in open stance. You can delay the P a little instead of doing the 1fk.

46P, P, 46P+KP6P
Jeffry and Wolf

46P, P, 1P+K, 3PP
Everyone else, yes it works on literally everyone else.

vs. Akira, Goh, Kage
delay the P slightly. It's very lenient and will work as long as you don't buffer P from 46P.

vs. Pai, Sarah, Shun, Lion, Aoi
1fk 3P (done as 323P). Against some of the cast you can 1fk 1P+K instead but on others it doesn't do anything and you'll need to 1fk 3P anyway. Notable with these characters is that if you do a delayed jab after 46P, you will need to 1fk both 1P+K and 3P as it'll make them bounce a bit higher.
Note: On Shun execute the combo normally with 1fk 3P no matter if you delay P or not.

vs Vanessa, Eileen, Blaze
1fk both 1P+K (input as 11P+K or 121P+K) and 3P. Interestingly the combo doesn't drop even if you delay P. Also yes, this combo does work on Blaze consistently and also from the side when done like this.

vs. Lau, Jacky, Lei, Brad, Jean
The combo works without any hassle on these guys. Instant P or delay P doesn't matter either from the front. I did notice that on a side hit 46P you need to delay the P against some of these guys or the combometer turns green. Probably a good habit to just always delay your jab a little vs. them.

Figuring out how to put notes on this combo into the combo list once we get them is going to be a nightmare.

 

Hm, I wouldn't think so as 3P needs to cause a "ground bounce" which as far as I'm aware is a 1f window right before exact recovery comes up. The combo should go green and be exact recoverable or even techable if you do it like that against everyone.

EDIT: To emphasize some of the characters don't want 1fks at all so you'd hit 3P too late on them. On characters that are affected by 1fk 1P+K but only want 1 1fk you'd hit it too late too.

It's not too much to remember in the long run I'd think. Delay jab crew, 1fk 3P crew, double 1fk crew.

 

Since back dash stagger is no longer a stagger and hitting it gives regular NH's , it appears Goh's best option if you catch a BD with K is simply to run up and 1P+K against most of the cast. No funny backthrow combo for the judo man because both K+G and 66P are only +9 on side hit.

Against Taka run up into 4P+K_ full charge, on anyone else 1P+K probably deals more damage unless walls are present.

 

Even after a dash OM to the right side ? K+G doesn't put the opponent backturned ?

 

It does indeed turn them BT but it doesn't give enough frame advantage to guarantee the throw. At the end of the day 1P+K does so much damage that it almost matches what dash OM K+G backthrow would do if it worked.

Small correction to what I said earlier. K+G on side hit is +9 but 66P on side hit is +8.

 

2_6P+G

vs Jacky and Jean

- 46P+KP6P W, 2_3P+K
76
They now hit the wall which I don't think happened before. If you start with 2P they won't hit the wall even though they look like they should.

- 3P, P, 6K!P+G
79
The jab refloat times itself. The hit-throw is a bit hard especially on Jacky due to them getting barely low enough for it to work at all.
Doesn't work with opponents front facing even slightly towards the wall when starting. You're 5 degrees off center-line towards that direction and it drops.

vs Jeffry and Wolf

- This throw never was great against these 2 but now it's just horrible: they don't hit the wall from it like 80 % of the time!

- P, 46P+KP6P works for 67 if you end up in a straight enough angle (throwing with opponents back towards the wall). Drops if you end up going a bit parallel to a wall (opponents front more towards wall when starting.

- P, 3PP for 60 seems like the best "always works" solution.

- Don't use this throw on them.

The throw is still ridiculously finicky and so I'm still not a fan. The Jacky / Jean combo is pretty dope though.

 

Some characters are listed multiple times because the better option either is stance specific or in the case of 1P+K, P, 66P+K... because everyone you'd want to do it on requires a dash frameless 66P+K and I wanted the next best alternative listed too.

CH 6K (in the open)

3KP, 46P, 2P, 46P+KP6P 111
Pai, Aoi, Sarah (1fk 2P), Lion (1fk 2P), Lau (Closed only), Jacky (Closed), Jean (Closed), Eileen (Open)

3KP, P+K, 2P, 46P+KP6P 111
Vanessa

3KP, 3P, P, 46P+KP6P 110
3KP, 3P, P, 6K!P+G 110 (-1DP)
Blaze, Shun

1P+K, P, 66P+K, 46P+KP6P 109
Perfect input: Akira, Lau, Kage, Goh, Brad, Lei, Jacky, Jean (Open),
Reliable: Jean (Close), Blaze, Eileen
Should work on all lights no problems but I didn't test since the above stuff works.

3KP, 3P, 2P, 46P+KP6P 109
Eileen (1fk 2P, better carry than above), Jean (1fk 3P & 2P), Brad (Open), Lei (Open),

3P+K, 2P, 66P+K, 46P+KP6P 103
Brad, Lei, Jean, Jacky (Open)

3KP, P, 46P+KP6P 100
Akira, Lau, Wolf, Jeffry, Jacky, Jean, Goh
The "Ol' Reliable" allows for a wall hit into a shoulder finish on non-heavies from very far away which none of the other combos do I believe. If you can carry them into wall it does more damage than anything else.

1P+K, 9P+K, 1P+K, 3PP 112
Taka
3P+K, 9P+K, 46P+KP, 3PP does 111 and carries the opponent slightly less than the listed combo

 

Since 1P+K, P, 9P+K now works on all but heavies it's easy to transition into a wall combo from it if you are near a wall at that point.

1P+K, P, 9P+K, 2P, 66P+K, 3PP for 91. Works if you high bound near a wall. If the opponent hits the wall between P and 9P+K you need to dash into 2P but otherwise you can just input it.

1P+K, P, 9P+K, 4P+K, 66P+K, 3PP for 93. Works if you end up some distance away from the wall. Especially lights can be transitioned into the wall quite handily with this, it's more difficult to judge the distance on mid-weights.

Both can be ended with shoulder on lights. Damage on both ends up at 101 due to wall scaling shenanigans (4P+K causes a slump, 2P just a regular wall hit).

There's also a possibility of doing 1P+K, P, 9P+K, 44P, BT 2P, 3PP for 95 (105 with shoulder) near walls but that seems to be a lot more character, stance and distance specific than the other 2 for a minor gain.

 

Some quick testing with 4K+G, BT 2P into wall

wall splat vs Wolf
Open 46P+KP6P connects, from closed you need to delay 46P+KP6P a little and it connects. Not sure yet if I'd call it reliable but didn't feel too bad on a quick test.

Launching Wolf into wall from further away 46P+KP6P connects when Wolf hits wall BT. Distance on heavies for BT 2P to bound from this situation is extremely tight and I wouldn't expect to see this much.

wall splat vs Goh
46P+KP6P connects from open but closed you're probably just shit out of luck and 3PP might be the best you can get guaranteed. 3P, 2P, 2_3P+K does 7 points more if you want to risk opponent exact recovering.

Launching into wall from further away the distance isn't as tight as Wolf but BT 2P still fails to bound if you're close to the wall. If you get the bound 46P+KP6P connects and Goh hits wall for 2_3P+K follow-up.

wall splat vs Aoi
46P+KP6P connects reliably. Depending on angle you might even get a wall hit for shoulder.

Launching into the wall from further away works like Goh except the distance for BT 2P to bound is a lot more lenient.

One thing to note when testing these is that if you OM and just do 4K+G without realigning the practice dummy with you, things won't work the same way as they do if you do realign them despite the positions and everything else looking visually the same.

 

66P+G, OM to Taka's front / Goh's back, 3PP works now and probably did since the beta. Never crossed my mind to try that before now.

I should probably change the title of this thread again since it's not really beta or early testing anymore but there's not much reason to make a new topic.

 

6P+K damage went from 24 to 25 in REVO which also means it's side bonus frames went from +3 to +6. It is now +1 on block and +10 on NH but it does still push the opponent pretty far away. However it is also now +14 in side CH and 46P can reach. So it is essentially now a plus on block CH launcher from the side and a punch at that giving him some extra variety.

Now, unfortunately after most throw escapes the distance is large enough to begin with that CH 6P+K will push the opponent out of 46P reach. Unguardable 4K isn't an option from that distance either.
CH 6P+K, 46P is still applicable after some throw escapes that leave the opponent sideturned close to you.

Keep this in mind after evading or after 66P or K+G hits.

EDIT: This stuff seems to be a quite character specific. On Wolf you seem to be able to reach him all day even after throw escapes. On Kage you can only connect from his front side even when close. From his back side 46P will whiff even with 6P+K done point blank after an OM.

 

Change to Back Dash Counter Hit
The opponent can no longer recover from a Back Dash Counter Hit from a Side Kick during their back dash. So then the advantage gained by hitting a back dashing opponent with a side kick is a staggering (pun intended) +63.

After 2.01:
・Backdash Counter Stun Adjustment
The total stun duration for backdash counter stuns, which occur when a middle kick-type move hits an opponent's backdash, has been reduced by 24 frames.

> So, QUESTION: How much is Total stun duration for backdash counter stuns, which occur when a middle kick-type move hits an opponent's backdash = ...............? 39 frames?

 

Which move is that +63 number coming from? Not all sidekicks have the same recovery / total duration so if you know that it should be easy enough to calculate.

I'm kind of curious what difference it makes though? Dash 1P+K is the play either way.

I'd like to say it's +41 for Goh or somewhere around since next to a wall I can combo into 4P+K full charge and 1fk 4P+K full charge works too but if I slop up the input intentionally even a little it does not count as a combo.

 

Start of +63 suggestion:
https://virtuafighter.com/threads/vf5us-version-2-0-update.22199/#post-417421

 

Still a little curious what use the exact number would be since the advantage is so humongous but after running a quick test it seems I managed to luck out and hit the nail on the head on the first go.

Goh K vs backdash gives +41, assuming a hit on it's first active.

If I do K, whiff jab (27 total frames), 6P (hits on frame 14) it connects guaranteed on frame 41. If I do 3P (making sure it hits on frame 15) instead of 6P it connects on frame 42 and the CPU attempts another backdash.

Adding the recovery frames of Goh's K after it hit on frame 16 to that we get to 64 frames.

The total duration of backdash stagger from the frame it starts is 64 frames.

 

After 2.01 in patch notes:
・Backdash Counter Stun Adjustment
The total stun duration for backdash counter stuns, which occur when a middle kick-type move hits an opponent's backdash, has been reduced by 24 frames.

63-64 was before 2.01, do you mean the patch log note about reducing by 24 is wrong and total stun remains the same 63-64 frames instead of 39-40 (or as you count 41)?