Sabaki-double throw escape; possible new option select?

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by ReCharredSigh, Apr 7, 2002.

  1. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    I'm just curious, would this work? seemingly, this is kinda like attack-throw escape, but if you buffered a sabaki coming out of recovery then tagged on 2 throw escapes, would the sabaki still come out immediately when you recover? i mean, if this is possible, then it'd be sorta like reversal-double throw escape, only with no whiff animation if you screw up. that could be something; but heck, i don't have a ps2; feel free to tell me that i have pretty bad ideas.
     
  2. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    A sabaki is an attack, it just happens to override some other attacks.
    You can't do attack --> throw escape or attack --> reversal because once the attack starts executing, you're committed to it and you generally can't be thrown during a strike. Even if it's a painfully slow one like lion's.
     
  3. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    What is possible, however, is to tack on a sabaki move at the end of a throw escape sequence.

    E.g. Akira does a Knee which gets blocked (-9f), then buffers in df+P+G and f+P+G during the recovery phase, and then b+P+K+G f+P thereafter. But this isn't really option select, just judicious flowcharting.

    A side question: for those of you who use reversal characters, do you do DTE-R or R-DTE?
     
  4. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    yeah, see, but I don't consider akira's b+PKG a sabaki. I know it makes the record scratch noise, but to me this is just a plain old inashi reversal with the noise (and the canned f+P followup).

    What you're suggesting is like RDTE, except you're saying it can be done backwards. As far as I know it HAS to be r-dte. You can escape throws during a failed reversal attempt, but you cannot reverse during a failed throw attempt.

    Anyway, re: the original question... I was just thinking that while sabaki DTE may not work, it doesn't matter much because if you do an attack that's throw counterable, you MUST escape for the throw, trying to stick a sabaki in there won't help any... and if the attack is uncounterable, a sabaki shouldn't be throwable during execution anyway... so throw escapes would be unnecessary. So sabaki after a blocked uncounterable move may be a pretty good idea. No throws can hit you, and many attacks will lose to the sabaki's special properties... a nice reward considering you don't need fast fingers to do it.
     
  5. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    yeah, see, but I don't consider akira's b+PKG a sabaki. I know it makes the record scratch noise, but to me this is just a plain old inashi reversal with the noise (and the canned f+P followup).

    Well, let me give you a parallel example with Kage then. d+K+G is blocked (-9f), Kage inputs df+P+G f+P+G during the tail end of the blockstun, then does b+K sabaki. Kage will be able to escape throws in two directions, plus he can sabaki against a wide variety of high and mid moves because the fastest reactionary move an opponent can make is a high punch (10f ex for Vanessa's DS df+P, 11f ex for Aoi/Pai/Sarah).

    (Of course, you could opt for the standard DTEG which would enable you to block those mid or high moves anyway.)

    Hmm, you know what? I think I should try this tactic out when I play next. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif


    What you're suggesting is like RDTE, except you're saying it can be done backwards. As far as I know it HAS to be r-dte. You can escape throws during a failed reversal attempt, but you cannot reverse during a failed throw attempt.

    True, this makes sense...
     
  6. J_Chuang

    J_Chuang Well-Known Member

    It is the same as attack TE, except most of the sabaki attacks (or their sabaki effective time ) are too late to be useful.

    Consider the following situation...

    Pai vs Jeff

    Pai standing K (whiffed or blocked)
    Jeff wait for Pai to go into ARM (ETE missed)
    Jeff aims for a delay Knee for big damage
    Jeff player is braindead and does the delay Knee anyway even though Pai doesn't evade.
    Pai's sabaki hit Jeff's Knee.

    I guess this may happen during some long late night/early morning vf sessions *shrug*
     
  7. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    R-DTE
     
  8. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    I inashi-DTE. df+P+K, TEs.
     
  9. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Well, let me give you a parallel example with Kage then. d+K+G is blocked (-9f), Kage inputs df+P+G f+P+G during the tail end of the blockstun, then does b+K sabaki. Kage will be able to escape throws in two directions, plus he can sabaki against a wide variety of high and mid moves because the fastest reactionary move an opponent can make is a high punch (10f ex for Vanessa's DS df+P, 11f ex for Aoi/Pai/Sarah).

    (Of course, you could opt for the standard DTEG which would enable you to block those mid or high moves anyway.)


    One hitch... you enter two throw escapes and then a sabaki during those nine frames of recovery. What do you see when the nine frames of over. You feel that it's the sabaki, I say it's throw whiff. Because the two throw escapes will be considered buffered throw attempts by the game. If you do them so early that the buffer ignores them, then you're not protecting yourself from the throws, your escape inputs will be earlier than the allowable throw window.


    then again, DTE-G is possible, and you don't get the whiff throw animation. Does that mean the DTE is truly not protecting you from throws? (because the DTE is entered so early that the game ignores them?), or is there a magic window where you can DTE-G and be truly covered from two throws and high attacks? If DTE-G = true, then concievably DTE-attack... DTE-sabaki...or DTE-anything else is possible. Now I'm not so sure.

    Testing I guess.
    I need to teach my cats how to hold a pad.
     
  10. SLA

    SLA Active Member

    Sorry to interrupt this discussion but I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to direct me to a source that explains all of the commonly used VF4 acronyms.

    Thanks
     
  11. Bu_Jessoom

    Bu_Jessoom Well-Known Member

    Try <a target="_blank" href=http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=versus&Number=23717&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1> this </a> for Sabaki, Inashi, and Reversal . Also:

    DTE-G = Double Throw Escape - Guard
    TTE = Triple Throw Escape
    R-DTE = should be Reversal - Double Throw Escape
     
  12. Freud

    Freud Well-Known Member

    TTE?
    is that really possible?
     
  13. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Yes, but hard to get out consistently. It's in the trial training mode.
     
  14. Genie47

    Genie47 Well-Known Member

    Some guy by the name of AlvinKoh at Gamersquare says he can pull it off to 95% consistency by rolling the stick from forward to down tapping P+G at every roll position.

    I've been trying to do that but didn't work for me. Hand-hand coordination must be his forte /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  15. SLA

    SLA Active Member

    Thanks
     
  16. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    i dunno, creed; what i was thinking was the typical 50/50 guessing game that R-DTE was supposed to beat. y'kno, they strike, you reverse, and if they throw, you escape. now i guess if it were possible to do S-DTE(we'll leave the S for sabaki for right now), this might be an alternative for non-reversal characters, but now that you said sabakis are in general un-throw counterable...and not to mention, if you key in throw escapes during a slow recovering sabaki(lei's for example), that's no longer S-DTE, cause i guess you're defending against a blocked sabaki, not the initial blocked attack.
     

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