Sabakis - how to cope?

I have a real problem with sabakis. Frankly, I think it's a stupid addition, but it's not for me to decide the gameplay elements in VF, my part is to actually learn them.

However, I can't quite figure out how to protect myself from Sabakis. It seems to me that one has to be a complete psychic or use a really limited array of moves to avoid getting slammed. Are there any things I should keep in mind? Any suggestions?

Granted, I haven't played VF4 for long, but to me it seems that sabakis are just a dumbed down reversal that "anyone can pick up"... And I'm somewhat bothered by that.

 

Ummm.. think a little bit about the a sabaki and what its does.

A sabaki will only work against particular attacks.

So you don't really need to be pychic to beat it, rather you need to be pyshic to use it. You're being hit by sabaki's because you are the aggressor, using a wrong or predictable attack versus the opponent.

So its much harder to use the sabaki than it is to fight against it. The sabaki is powerful if you are do not understand it.

Most sabaki's don't worth against every type of attack. Some are slow to execute or vulnerable if blocked.

For e.g,
if you see Lei Fei in stance wither EV or TG, do a flip-kick or crescent attack. Anything that is either non-reversible or cannot be sabaki'd by those moves.

Also note that many of sabaki attacks can be thrown if blocked.

The best sabaki in the game probably is owned by Lion.

His QCB+P is instant sabaki VS:
HK, HP, ME, KN, HE, MK

note that low attacks aren't listed, neither are SM and MP. Also he is throwable when blocked.

So with a little research other characters sabaki moves can
defeated.

Lei Fei's sabaki's are plentiful and usually very rewarding, but they are risky as well.

However, when I play against players who are inexperienced vs Lei Fei and sabaki in general they are very easy to beat because of my knowledge of the strength of sabaki and their lack of knowledge vs my sabaki.

If you want a more specific answer.. could you name the Character and particular sabaki move that vexes you?

 

Sabakis are very powerful. But realize that everything in a fighters arsenal is very powerful. The trick to beating the sabaki is knowing the situation they use it. I will be using Lei_Fei for my examples since he is the sabaki master(hes got a lot).

Ok, Sabaki are like reversals, but they are attacks. The timing on them is very close to a reversal. Now, reversal are down out of anticipation. You dont need Dione Warwick, you just need to know situations, or setup situations where you are 90%(VF doesnt have 100%, thats the beauty of the yomi game)sure they will attack. You then use your sabaki. This is a little different for Lei-Fei, cause alot of his sabakis come out of stances, but its the same principle.

The most powerful way to counter act sabakis, is first know when your opponent likes to use them. And not attacking when they expect you to. And second is delay ing your attacks. If you are patient and wait just a little bit, the sabaki will miss. Just practice reading your opponent and eventually they will have to learn new ways to set up the sabaki cause his normal ways arent working. I hope this helps. Im not a very good writer.

 

The best sabaki in the game probably is owned by Lion.

His QCB+P is instant sabaki VS:
HK, HP, ME, KN, HE, MK

note that low attacks aren't listed, neither are SM and MP.

Actually, the current Sabaki Chart and Version C Command List show it as a Sabaki vs. HK, HP, MK, SK, and KN -- not versus elbows (midlevel or high).

 

definitely vs:
HK, HP, HE, KN, ME, MK

not sure:
SM (eg flipkicks)

definitely NOT vs:
MP, LP, LK, Crescents

 

definitely vs:
HK, HP, HE, KN, ME, MK

Well, I guess you and Myke have a bit of a disagreement. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, I asked a question in the Character & Technique Training forum (where I thought this type of stuff belonged) on Lei's Double Palm Sabaki that I would appreciate your looking at.

 

Lion Sabaki

"First is about Lion's Meteor Punch." <font color=orange>d,d/b,b+P</font color=orange><> which <font color=black>The Brotherhood</font color=black> prefers to represent as: 214P or MP in notes. It's interruptible attack against all high p, high k, high elbow, middle elbow, sidekick, middle kick and knee.

First high elbow (HE or he) means only Vanessa's lighting elbow
( <font color=orange>f+P+K</font color=orange> when Muay-Thai style)

side kick means d/f+K

knee means itself, any knee class kick ( f+K).

middle kick means some middle and half round kick, which have a <font color=white>middle attack-point</font color=white> like <font color=orange>f,f+K</font color=orange> Lion's <font color=orange>d+K+G is interestingly in this class, as is </font color=orange> Kage's <font color=orange> f,f +K</font color=orange>.


And you asked what is <font color=white>Sabaki</font color=white>, it means "interruptible" or "treatable against" in Japanese.

So Lion is definitely strong against Jeffrey.

Jeffrey players usually enjoy use of double crow( <font color=orange>d+P+G</font color=orange> when you were down). Jeffrey rousts opponent by that skill and attack with knee or throw.

So at that time, just use Meteor Punch (MP) [214P], then Lion win against knee and throw .

And Meteor combos are all good. Some important strategy comes from Meteor hit.

When Meteor hit, the opponent is knocked into a ‘groggy’ state. Hit ‘em with axe song (<font color=orange>f,f+KK</font color=orange>).

If opponent doesn't use breakfalls (u/d p+k+g or just p+k+g), another <font color=white>axe song</font color=white> can hit.

So experienced human player push <font color=orange>P+K+G</font color=orange> at this time button for breakfall.

You have a chance to get opponent's back now. If opponent use <font color=orange>u</font color=orange> or <font color=orange>d</font color=orange> <font color=orange>P+K+G breakfall</font color=orange> after first axe song, just attack with <font color=orange>d/b+K</font color=orange>

When breakfalling. It's a groggy down-specific strategy. All other characters have similar situation. You could see many scenes from mpeg.

Yon know already? /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

Sigh~ please forgive my poor sentence construction. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

Then see you later ~- This is from our VF friend<font color=red>Jang</font color=red> who is a member of MVP and Jang was one of the creators of the <font color=white>Akira Dance</font color=white> which <font color=blue>Hyun</font color=blue> converted to mpeg and it is still available at MVP site and <font color=orange>Creed's ftp</font color=orange> too. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
BTW- Jang was writing about Version b VF4. One other note: <font color=green>xaxak</font color=green> of The NO Mercy VF Club contributed the definative article on the correct employment of Mantis sabaki (imho). You can find it here at VFDC and <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/nycat.geo/Lion>www.geocities.com/nycat.geo/Lion</a> xaxak also has his own Brotherhood of Lion web site in Korean. Check out the xaxak mpegs and wmv at Fei's site and agn at CreeD's ftp. go to media section here.<font color=black>
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/nycat.geo/Meteor.html>http://www.geocities.com/nycat.geo/Meteor.html</a> reverse the info 4 antiLion sabaki and add the delay info in posts here at VFDC (^^)

 

Re: Lion Sabaki

You sure it works on mid elbows? I've never had it work.

 

Re: Lion Sabaki

Sausage Man: With all due respect to ken, he is "definitely" wrong (with regards to Version C anyway). As I tried to tactfully point out to him, Lion's Sabaki does NOT work vs. elbows, either midlevel or high. I am not sure why he is so confident of his assertion (perhaps it was true in earlier versions), but anyone with a PS2 can easily test this for Version C by going into training mode. Myke's Sabaki Chart and his Lion Version C Command List note are correct on this one.

 

Re: Lion Sabaki

Yes.. i'm wrong..
Lion Meteor doe not sabaki elbows...

Dunno why I get the impression that Meteor Punch works vs Elbow...

Maybe I'm confusing it with some Lei Fei stuff...

 

Actually...for any sabaki or special high or whatever, if you have trouble going at it head to head, just dodge. this is a 3D game after all...and the dodge system in VF4 is based on timing so some skill is required here. Hope this makes you more comfortable around sabaki attacks in future.

 

Re: Lion Sabaki

It doesn't sabaki against elbows in Version B either...